There are no debates
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01-02-2014, 01:21 PM
There are no debates
For many of the so called "debates" between theists and atheists, to me these all seem like atheists explaining to the theist, how the world works and the theist struggling to understand it all while trying to maintain his or her personal fantasy about the world.

There is no debate. This is an act of someone knowledgeable explaining life to someone who wants to be or is in the dark when it comes to reality.

You can debate Ford vs Chevy or what country provides better health care to it's citizens. You can even debate about how the bible was first cobbled together into a canon or how it's been relentlessly changed to suit a kings needs over the years.

What is not up for debate is if a god makes it rain or if a god helped you find your keys or a parking spot at the mall.

We debate evidence, not the lack of evidence.
We justify arguments with evidence. We don't make blank assertions and call it an argument.
Facts are debated by using other facts. You can't debate facts with fantasy.

/rant

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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01-02-2014, 01:23 PM
RE: There are no debates
Harumph!

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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01-02-2014, 01:37 PM
RE: There are no debates
(01-02-2014 01:21 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  For many of the so called "debates" between theists and atheists, to me these all seem like atheists explaining to the theist, how the world works and the theist struggling to understand it all while trying to maintain his or her personal fantasy about the world.

There is no debate. This is an act of someone knowledgeable explaining life to someone who wants to be or is in the dark when it comes to reality.

You can debate Ford vs Chevy or what country provides better health care to it's citizens. You can even debate about how the bible was first cobbled together into a canon or how it's been relentlessly changed to suit a kings needs over the years.

What is not up for debate is if a god makes it rain or if a god helped you find your keys or a parking spot at the mall.

We debate evidence, not the lack of evidence.
We justify arguments with evidence. We don't make blank assertions and call it an argument.
Facts are debated by using other facts. You can't debate facts with fantasy.

/rant

Is that a fact? Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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01-02-2014, 01:48 PM
RE: There are no debates
(01-02-2014 01:21 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  ...
You can't debate facts with fantasy.

/rant

Tonight's Debate: Star Trek is superior to Star Wars.

Consider

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01-02-2014, 02:06 PM
RE: There are no debates
(01-02-2014 01:48 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(01-02-2014 01:21 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  ...
You can't debate facts with fantasy.

/rant

Tonight's Debate: Star Trek is superior to Star Wars.

Consider

There's nothing to debate on that. Star Trek is way better. Angel


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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01-02-2014, 02:52 PM
RE: There are no debates
I would love to see the debate between two guys who believed their prospective (star wars) / (star trek) world views were FACTUAL & TRUE.

"The Federations position on a working "Death Star" will not be swayed by outlandish assertions that we are working with the Romulans"
vs
"When Darth Vader hears of this, you and your federation will be in for quite a shock....literally"

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01-02-2014, 03:02 PM
RE: There are no debates
(01-02-2014 01:21 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  For many of the so called "debates" between theists and atheists, to me these all seem like atheists explaining to the theist, how the world works and the theist struggling to understand it all while trying to maintain his or her personal fantasy about the world.

There is no debate. This is an act of someone knowledgeable explaining life to someone who wants to be or is in the dark when it comes to reality.

You can debate Ford vs Chevy or what country provides better health care to it's citizens. You can even debate about how the bible was first cobbled together into a canon or how it's been relentlessly changed to suit a kings needs over the years.

What is not up for debate is if a god makes it rain or if a god helped you find your keys or a parking spot at the mall.

We debate evidence, not the lack of evidence.
We justify arguments with evidence. We don't make blank assertions and call it an argument.
Facts are debated by using other facts. You can't debate facts with fantasy.

/rant

Agree with you sometimes this is the case eg with Young Earth creationists fantasies. (Ken Ham and the like, debate is pointless) I would also add William Lane Craig to the list because I find him dishonest & using rhetorical tactics in an abusive manner.

However there are generally honest theists who debate and do have intellectual credibility. Eg John Polkinghorne or Richard Swinburne are theist apologist's using a Bayesian probabilistic account & knowledge of physics which can be debated.
They do not claim certainty and use probabilistic reasoning for defending Christianity which can be altered with debate either making certain points less or more credible.

Eg on the "PRO" theism side
Belief in God in an Age of Science by Polkinghorne, John
Is There a God? by Swinburne, Richard (1 Feb 1996)


and the case against:
God in the Age of Science?: A Critique of Religious Reason by Philipse, Herman
(directly takes on R.Swinburne style arguments)
God: The Failed Hypothesis. How Science Shows That God Does Not Exist by Stenger, Victor J. and Christopher Hitchens (25 Jan 2007)

A wise man proportions his belief to the evidence -
David Hume


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01-02-2014, 03:14 PM
RE: There are no debates
Star Trek isnt real ? Weeping

Wait a minute, dont we have flip style communicators and talking computors ? The space shuttle ? ...... it must be true Dodgy
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01-02-2014, 04:49 PM
RE: There are no debates
I could see making a case for a civilization existing somewhere in the universe that is at a level of technology that is comparable to Star Trek or Star Wars, (minus) the mind altering and telekinesis of Darth Vader and the Force

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01-02-2014, 06:29 PM
RE: There are no debates
(01-02-2014 03:14 PM)War Horse Wrote:  Star Trek isnt real ? Weeping

Of course it's real! Just now I had to call the exterminator because of a severe infestation of Tribbles. Little fuckers multiply like bed bugs.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
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