There is danger in dogma, whoever is behind it.
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03-04-2013, 05:56 PM (This post was last modified: 03-04-2013 06:06 PM by GirlyMan.)
There is danger in dogma, whoever is behind it.
Spotted on the alternet.

Have Militant Atheists Created a New Religion?

It's a rather long read but very well-written. Comes down pretty hard on Hitchens and Harris, but also comes down hard on D’Souza and Rabbi Boteach (whoever the fuck they are). Finds Dennett reasonable, as Girly has for some 3 decades now since I first was introduced to him and Hofstadter through The Minds' I back in uni.

The basic premise is not made explicit until the last paragraph. That if a primatologist finds evidence of humanism in primates devoid of religion, what is the role of religion in human society, how did it come to be, why does it persist?

Anywho, it's an excerpt from the primatologist's book The Bonobo and the Atheist: In Search of Humanism Among the Primates. ... Guess I'm gonna go and read the whole book now since I find the premise rather provocative.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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03-04-2013, 06:12 PM
RE: There is danger in dogma, whoever is behind it.
I tried to read it, and the stupid thing kept going to mobile version... Dodgy

And! Author seems like a dumb-assed bandwagon-jumper. Tongue

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03-04-2013, 06:34 PM (This post was last modified: 03-04-2013 06:37 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: There is danger in dogma, whoever is behind it.
(03-04-2013 06:12 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  I tried to read it, and the stupid thing kept going to mobile version... Dodgy

And! Author seems like a dumb-assed bandwagon-jumper. Tongue

Quite the contrary methinks, Brother John. You need to read the whole thing to get that though, it ain't clear until the last paragraph.

Here it is posted as a single page. Dunno if that'll help your technical difficulties or not.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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03-04-2013, 06:44 PM
RE: There is danger in dogma, whoever is behind it.
From the article:

"Why are the “neo-atheists” of today so obsessed with God’s nonexistence that they go on media rampages, wear T-shirts proclaiming their absence of belief, or call for a militant atheism? What does atheism have to offer that’s worth fighting for?"


For me it is because the religious in the US have taken over the government and, now in power, they are attempting to convert this nation from secular to religious, see how well that's turned out in other countries. I abhor, and I don't use that word lightly, uncritical thinking especially when laws are enacted using same.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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03-04-2013, 07:16 PM
RE: There is danger in dogma, whoever is behind it.
(03-04-2013 06:34 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(03-04-2013 06:12 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  I tried to read it, and the stupid thing kept going to mobile version... Dodgy

And! Author seems like a dumb-assed bandwagon-jumper. Tongue

Quite the contrary methinks, Brother John. You need to read the whole thing to get that though, it ain't clear until the last paragraph.

Here it is posted as a single page. Dunno if that'll help your technical difficulties or not.

Still tried to go mobile on me, but I fixt it. Thumbsup

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03-04-2013, 07:16 PM (This post was last modified: 03-04-2013 07:52 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: There is danger in dogma, whoever is behind it.
(03-04-2013 06:44 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  From the article:

"Why are the “neo-atheists” of today so obsessed with God’s nonexistence that they go on media rampages, wear T-shirts proclaiming their absence of belief, or call for a militant atheism? What does atheism have to offer that’s worth fighting for?"


For me it is because the religious in the US have taken over the government and, now in power, they are attempting to convert this nation from secular to religious, see how well that's turned out in other countries. I abhor, and I don't use that word lightly, uncritical thinking especially when laws are enacted using same.

I concur. Before I came to this forum I'd been an atheist (or I guess more properly a "meist" since I am my own personal Lord and Savior ... same damn thing for all practical purposes, though Tongue ) for 3 decades and I hadn't even heard of the terms "anti-theist" or "militant atheism". But I've lived virtually my entire life in the People's Republic of Maryland where religious diversity is so great they don't even take notice of the atheists. I don't abhor uncritical thinking per se, you're free to think whatever bullshit you want, hell there are those here who can make a somewhat reasonable argument for worshiping Gwyneth Paltrow, but like you I do abhor if you try to make said bullshit public policy. I can appreciate the value of militant atheists in those states where that bullshit is happening. But not sure attacking religion is the right tactic. The Christian Churches should attack the fucking Ryan Budget, for example, as being distinctly unChristian. And some have. Their policy proposals should be subverted from their own stated foundations. Cut 'em off at their obviously not Christian knees. Think it's just death throes cause I'm pretty sure their children don't feel the same and the old ignorant fucks are gonna die out soon enough. ... But I do agree that militant atheism should be used to minimize the damage from the death throes in those assbackwards States that need it. Maryland ain't one of them.

From the text: "As one philosopher put it, being a militant atheist is like 'sleeping furiously'."

Girly ain't no militant atheist but I am a big fucking fan of "sleeping furiously." Thumbsup

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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03-04-2013, 07:51 PM
RE: There is danger in dogma, whoever is behind it.
(03-04-2013 07:16 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(03-04-2013 06:44 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  From the article:

"Why are the “neo-atheists” of today so obsessed with God’s nonexistence that they go on media rampages, wear T-shirts proclaiming their absence of belief, or call for a militant atheism? What does atheism have to offer that’s worth fighting for?"


For me it is because the religious in the US have taken over the government and, now in power, they are attempting to convert this nation from secular to religious, see how well that's turned out in other countries. I abhor, and I don't use that word lightly, uncritical thinking especially when laws are enacted using same.

I concur. Before I came to this forum I'd been an atheist (or I guess more properly a "meist" since I am my own personal Lord and Savior ... same damn thing for all practical purposes, though Tongue ) for 3 decades and I hadn't even heard of the terms "anti-theist" or "militant atheism". But I've lived virtually my entire life in the People's Republic of Maryland where religious diversity is so great they don't even take notice of the atheists. I don't abhor uncritical thinking per se, you're free to think whatever bullshit you want, hell there are those here who can make a somewhat reasonable argument for worshiping Gwyneth Paltrow, but like you I do abhor if you try to make said bullshit public policy. I can appreciate the value of militant atheists in those states where that bullshit is happening. But not sure attacking religion is the right tactic. The Christian Churches should attack the fucking Ryan Budget, for example, as being distinctly unChristian. And some have. Their policy proposals should be subverted from their own stated positions. Think it's just death throes cause I'm pretty sure their children don't feel the same and the old ignorant fucks are gonna die out soon enough. ... But I do agree that militant atheism should be used to minimize the damage from the death throes in those assbackwards States that need it. Maryland ain't one of them.

From the text: "As one philosopher put it, being a militant atheist is like 'sleeping furiously'."

Girly ain't no militant atheist but I am a big fucking fan of "sleeping furiously." Thumbsup
Huh another citizen of the old line state. Thumbsup I have almost the same experince. Localy religion is just not a big thing even living in a city that is known for it's churches.

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03-04-2013, 08:07 PM (This post was last modified: 03-04-2013 08:30 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: There is danger in dogma, whoever is behind it.
(03-04-2013 07:51 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(03-04-2013 07:16 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  ... But I do agree that militant atheism should be used to minimize the damage from the death throes in those assbackwards States that need it. Maryland ain't one of them.
Huh another citizen of the old line state. Thumbsup I have almost the same experince. Localy religion is just not a big thing even living in a city that is known for it's churches.

I know right? Asking your religion 'round here is like asking your music or wine or your politics or what'll you have..., it's all good. The Old Line State is the motherfucking Free State. ... bitches. Big Grin

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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03-04-2013, 08:11 PM
RE: There is danger in dogma, whoever is behind it.
(03-04-2013 07:16 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  ... but like you I do abhor if you try to make said bullshit public policy. I can appreciate the value of militant atheists in those states where that bullshit is happening.

But it isn't just happening at a State level is it?

(03-04-2013 07:16 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  But not sure attacking religion is the right tactic. The Christian Churches should attack the fucking Ryan Budget, for example, as being distinctly unChristian. And some have. Their policy proposals should be subverted from their own stated foundations. Cut 'em off at their obviously not Christian knees.

This makes perfect sense to me and you and yet how many people do you know that will vote against their own best interests because of religious beliefs? If, as you say, the CC should but don't then someone else has to.

PS Meist huh? I like.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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03-04-2013, 08:27 PM (This post was last modified: 03-04-2013 08:38 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: There is danger in dogma, whoever is behind it.
(03-04-2013 08:11 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(03-04-2013 07:16 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  ... but like you I do abhor if you try to make said bullshit public policy. I can appreciate the value of militant atheists in those states where that bullshit is happening.

But it isn't just happening at a State level is it?

It will never happen at the Federal level. It can't, by decree ... ain't constitutionally acceptable and shit ... and it disturbs my bowels.

I don't know what to do about the backass fucking States other than to wait for them to die out, 'cause their kids ain't buying the bullshit they're selling.

As it was in the beginning is now and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.
And I will show you something different from either
Your shadow at morning striding behind you
Or your shadow at evening rising to meet you;
I will show you fear in a handful of dust.
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