There is nothing Trump can say.
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20-09-2016, 12:47 AM
RE: There is nothing Trump can say.
(19-09-2016 01:38 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  
(19-09-2016 01:32 PM)DLJ Wrote:  I'm not interested in the US constitution or any other country. A new Leviathan is need for the globalised 21st century and it ain't state-based.

What do you have? Lead me to a description of how it's going to work. Do not tell me that I have to attend a seminar. You need to put it into some kind of a replicable media, because you are not going to be able to get enough people to attend you seminars.

Enough to maintain my immodest lifestyle.

OK, I'll lead you...

Think back to your own post here

But imagine applying it to a world where the dominant power is the merchant class.

Quote:Varys smiled. “Here, then. Power resides where men believe it resides. No more and no less.”

First tribes and then power families (European monarchs; Chinese dynasties) without fixed borders.
Then religions and later other ideologies have been the dominant force... again, no borders.

[Image: thomas-hobbes-quote-no-arts-no-letters-n...orst-o.jpg]

So the people said "Fuck this!" and so came Westphalia and later the United Nations.

Borders established. Peace on Earth and goodwill to all men (well, y'know, some white men). Cain trumps Abel, again.

Each social configuration has developed its Leviathan:
Job 41:34 Wrote:He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride.

... King or Emperor or UN or Pope or Parliament or Governing Body. Each with its military wing.

In the 70s, even UK football clubs had a military wing. It's a natural part of social evolution.

What then if the power shifts to the merchant class and away from the nations?

With cross-border (borderless) interconnections i.e. value networks (interdependent supply chains) reliant on consumers but beholden to shareholders we hand the power to the corporations... Industry 4.0

Nations' power will be as investors and less independent as regulators.

As an aside, can you imagine corporations with a military wing? (Haliburton's Gulf War III sponsored by US.gov.)

Nations will try to rule via trade agreements. Corporations will play off nations' self-interests against each other.

You asked me to lead you. I lead you to this ... apply your model (in your linked post) to the ISDS.

What (or who) then, will be the new Leviathan?

More specifically, who are these people in a global demand-driven economy?:
TrainWreck Wrote:6. network of representatives

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20-09-2016, 06:45 AM
RE: There is nothing Trump can say.
(19-09-2016 03:47 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(19-09-2016 03:33 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  Oh fucking horseshit.......

[Image: takers-vs-makers.jpg]

Let me guess -- you got that off the DNC's websight, right???

......

I'm not going to say it's entirely wrong... They did manage to spell all the names of the states correctly -- so there's that........................

This kind of "data" is almost ALWAYS biased, inflammatory, over-simplified and wrong....

The numbers are nearly always "massaged" to get the end result of confirmation that the proponent is looking for.

This goes for both ( D ) and ( R ) types.

.......................................

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20-09-2016, 06:59 AM (This post was last modified: 20-09-2016 07:03 AM by EvolutionKills.)
RE: There is nothing Trump can say.
(20-09-2016 06:45 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  This kind of "data" is almost ALWAYS biased, inflammatory, over-simplified and wrong....


The chart cites it's fucking source. It's from publicly available information. It's literally checking the amount of taxes going to and from the federal government, both amounts of which are a matter of public record.

That's not to say that you cannot lie with graphs, but that infographic is so simple, and the information it presents is so one dimensional, that there is little wiggle room. Literally the biggest quibble you could have is that the information is a decade old, and the red/blue designation is based on the 08' presidential elections.

But hey, maybe the TaxFoundation.org people are biased. I mean, they are an independent think tank that just released a less than glowing review of Trump's proposed tax policies.



Key Findings
  • Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump’s tax plan would significantly reduce income taxes and corporate taxes, and eliminate the estate tax.
  • According to the Tax Foundation’s Taxes and Growth Model, the plan would reduce federal revenue by between $4.4 trillion and $5.9 trillion on a static basis. The amount depends on the nature of a key business policy provision.
  • The plan would also significantly reduce marginal rates and the cost of capital, which would lead to higher long-run levels of GDP, wages, and full-time equivalent jobs.
  • After accounting for the larger economy and the broader tax base, the plan would reduce revenues by between $2.6 trillion and $3.9 trillion after accounting for the larger economy, depending on the nature of a key policy provision.
  • The plan reduces revenue by substantially less than the plan proposed by Trump last year, on both a static and dynamic basis.
  • On a static basis, the plan would lead to at least 0.8 percent higher after-tax income for all taxpayer quintiles. The plan would lead to at least 10.2 percent higher incomes for the top 1 percent of taxpayers or as much as 16.0 percent higher, depending on the nature of a key business policy provision.

http://taxfoundation.org/article/details...ember-2016

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20-09-2016, 07:08 AM
RE: There is nothing Trump can say.
(20-09-2016 12:47 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(19-09-2016 01:38 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  What do you have? Lead me to a description of how it's going to work. Do not tell me that I have to attend a seminar. You need to put it into some kind of a replicable media, because you are not going to be able to get enough people to attend you seminars.

Enough to maintain my immodest lifestyle.

OK, I'll lead you...

Think back to your own post here

But imagine applying it to a world where the dominant power is the merchant class.

Quote:Varys smiled. “Here, then. Power resides where men believe it resides. No more and no less.”

First tribes and then power families (European monarchs; Chinese dynasties) without fixed borders.
Then religions and later other ideologies have been the dominant force... again, no borders.

[Image: thomas-hobbes-quote-no-arts-no-letters-n...orst-o.jpg]

So the people said "Fuck this!" and so came Westphalia and later the United Nations.

Borders established. Peace on Earth and goodwill to all men (well, y'know, some white men). Cain trumps Abel, again.

Each social configuration has developed its Leviathan:
Job 41:34 Wrote:He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride.

... King or Emperor or UN or Pope or Parliament or Governing Body. Each with its military wing.

In the 70s, even UK football clubs had a military wing. It's a natural part of social evolution.

What then if the power shifts to the merchant class and away from the nations?

With cross-border (borderless) interconnections i.e. value networks (interdependent supply chains) reliant on consumers but beholden to shareholders we hand the power to the corporations... Industry 4.0

Nations' power will be as investors and less independent as regulators.

As an aside, can you imagine corporations with a military wing? (Haliburton's Gulf War III sponsored by US.gov.)

Nations will try to rule via trade agreements. Corporations will play off nations' self-interests against each other.

You asked me to lead you. I lead you to this ... apply your model (in your linked post) to the ISDS.

What (or who) then, will be the new Leviathan?

More specifically, who are these people in a global demand-driven economy?:
TrainWreck Wrote:6. network of representatives
Your post led me to think about the rise of paramilitarism in general. Seems it has reached very high levels in American police forces.

Wonder if Trump might decide they also need A10s, Apaches or some other ground attack aircraft!

Tomorrow is precious, don't ruin it by fouling up today.
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20-09-2016, 08:09 AM
RE: There is nothing Trump can say.
(19-09-2016 03:33 PM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(19-09-2016 03:21 PM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  Actually the exact opposite is true - Republican voters tend to be less educated, more economically depressed, and tend to benefit more from "hand-outs" through various public programs. The states with the best economies, who pay more in federal taxes than they receive in government aid are mostly blue. The states at the bottom are mostly red.

Oh fucking horseshit.......

The ONLY smart people left in this country are the ones who've said fuck it - and quit voting......................

You'll get the lizard you deserve.....

And - if you want "less educated, economically depressed and wanting handouts" try Flint or Detroit Michigan....... Not exactly bastions of Republican voters...............

Not saying there aren't smart and well-educated people on the Right. The smartest guy I know in the "real world" is conservative. I'm talking about the average. Statistically the poorer and less educated you are the more likely you are to vote Republican.
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20-09-2016, 08:33 AM (This post was last modified: 20-09-2016 09:01 AM by GirlyMan.)
RE: There is nothing Trump can say.
(20-09-2016 06:45 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(19-09-2016 03:47 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  [Image: takers-vs-makers.jpg]

Let me guess -- you got that off the DNC's websight, right???

......

I'm not going to say it's entirely wrong... They did manage to spell all the names of the states correctly -- so there's that........................

This kind of "data" is almost ALWAYS biased, inflammatory, over-simplified and wrong....

The numbers are nearly always "massaged" to get the end result of confirmation that the proponent is looking for.

This goes for both ( D ) and ( R ) types.

The source of the data is cited on the chart. The designers of the chart merely presented the information in the cited source in a graphical format. No massaging done other than rank ordering.

EDIT: The source has changed url's since the chart was designed. Here is the latest link: Federal Tax Burdens and Expenditures by State: Which States Gain Most from Federal Fiscal Operations? Their methodology is described in detail there for you to review. The Tax Foundation is generally considered to be nonpartisan although some say it has conservative leanings.

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20-09-2016, 08:44 AM
RE: There is nothing Trump can say.
(18-09-2016 02:41 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Believe me, I am so much better at what he’s doing than he is, you won’t even believe it. ... He’s a nasty guy. Probably has a problem that we don’t know about. ... We're dealing with incompetent people. We're dealing with stupid people. We're dealing with people like Robert Gates that don’t have a clue,"


The line of a snake-oil salesman. "Believe me" .... guess what, Dumpster, .... I don't believe one fucking thing that comes out of that lying mouth. How could he be SO deluded, after all the bankruptcies and Trump University, and the "caught in the act" discrimination by the Justice Dept, to think ANYONE would believe ANYTHING he says. Carl Bernstein says he's a con-man. Dumpster is mentally ill.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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20-09-2016, 08:57 AM
RE: There is nothing Trump can say.
(20-09-2016 06:45 AM)onlinebiker Wrote:  
(19-09-2016 03:47 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  [Image: takers-vs-makers.jpg]

Let me guess -- you got that off the DNC's websight, right???

......

I'm not going to say it's entirely wrong... They did manage to spell all the names of the states correctly -- so there's that........................

This kind of "data" is almost ALWAYS biased, inflammatory, over-simplified and wrong....

The numbers are nearly always "massaged" to get the end result of confirmation that the proponent is looking for.

This goes for both ( D ) and ( R ) types.

Well, at least they aren't ( L ) types.

[Image: types_of_libertarian1.jpg?w=984]

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20-09-2016, 09:02 AM (This post was last modified: 20-09-2016 09:21 AM by Mr. Boston.)
RE: There is nothing Trump can say.
(19-09-2016 04:00 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  I can probably put together a better presentation of the statistics than what you are conjuring here.

What “statistics” can there possibly be that prove a conspiracy between Trump and Clinton? You’re asserting that promises were made related to the “birther” issue, yet you provide ZERO evidence to substantiate your claim. As Hitchens so eloquently put it, “that which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.”


(19-09-2016 04:00 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  It is so shameful that you call people such terrible names - you know it's not true, because all the spics, and niggers, and chinks, and ragheads, keep a coming.

Hold on I’M the one who’s guilty of name-calling? I certainly haven’t been tossing slurs around. I kind of figured the gloves were off when you insinuated my grandmothers should have had abortions.


(19-09-2016 04:00 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  It's amazing how the Democrats are so evolved and take such good care of the Ghetto Dwellers, and how you make them all so smart. But what is really amazing is how well we, Republicans, keep them down even when it should be the best of times for them.

If you feel so threatened by “Ghetto Dwellers,” and illegal immigrants whom you look down at as being uneducated and unskilled; if you’re in competition with these people who don’t speak the language, and don’t have a base of support in the community – what does that say about you? If you’re so superior, why are you so afraid of these people?


(19-09-2016 04:00 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  We recognize them as apart of the corrupt establishment stupid. We do not understand it completely, but we know something is wrong, and Trump is the best alternative. He knows business, and he is not afraid to shut down a business. And he will ultimately suggest that the federal government needs to be reorganized.

I’m not arguing against the idea that corruption is rampant – I’m just wondering what precedent there is to suggest that Donald Trump is able or even willing to do anything about it. He seems pretty adept at gaming the system to his own advantage, there have been numerous fraud investigations, alleged mob ties, bribes paid to avoid fraud charges, etc. If by “knowing business,” and not being “afraid to shutdown a business,” you’re referring to his ability to swindle investors, file for bankruptcy, and safely escape on a golden parachute from one burning wreck after another, I’m not sure why the voter should consider this an admirable skill set or any kind of qualification to run the country. If he’s such a vaunted success why won’t he release his taxes? I suspect (and here’s where my own baseless allegations come in) that there’s something in there he desperately doesn’t want his supporters to know. Like he’s teetering on the brink of complete financial failure, or his financial ties to foreign governments would render him completely incapable of running the country without very real concerns about conflicts of interest. Also the US Government isn't a business you can simply shut down and start a new one.

Donald Trump did not run to dismantle “the machine” or take the country back for working people. He did it to strengthen his brand and stroke his own ego and see himself on TV every day again. I don’t think (more conjecture here I admit) he ever DREAMED he’d get this far and I don’t think he has any interest in running the country. His continuous campaign staff shake-ups, his lack of a meaningful ground game in many key states, The RNC’s focusing of funds away from him and into down-ballot campaigns lead me to believe what he’s really trying to do at this point is grease the skids for a defeat in November after which he can wail about corruption for awhile then ride out the rest of his hopefully short life doing the rounds on the weekend talk shows, writing op-ed pieces, and maybe even parlay the whole experience into a book deal and a show on Fox News.
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20-09-2016, 01:22 PM (This post was last modified: 20-09-2016 01:29 PM by TrainWreck.)
RE: There is nothing Trump can say.
(20-09-2016 09:02 AM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  What “statistics” can there possibly be that prove a conspiracy between Trump and Clinton? You’re asserting that promises were made related to the “birther” issue, yet you provide ZERO evidence to substantiate your claim. As Hitchens so eloquently put it, “that which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.”
The problem is that when it comes to evidence of political campaign contributions we encounter a veil of secrecy that goes back to the times of the racist slave owners who established the inadequate constitution that exploited by devious politicians. We the low life working class dogs do not have the sophistication to solve it, much less, recognize it, especially when it is deployed in our favor.

(20-09-2016 09:02 AM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  Hold on I’M the one who’s guilty of name-calling? I certainly haven’t been tossing slurs around. I kind of figured the gloves were off when you insinuated my grandmothers should have had abortions.
can you comment on the cognitive disconnect that I was illustrating? If we are such a racist and homophobe, and everything else, then why are these people seeking refuge in the fucked-up country???

(20-09-2016 09:02 AM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  
(19-09-2016 04:00 PM)TrainWreck Wrote:  It's amazing how the Democrats are so evolved and take such good care of the Ghetto Dwellers, and how you make them all so smart. But what is really amazing is how well we, Republicans, keep them down even when it should be the best of times for them.

If you feel so threatened by “Ghetto Dwellers,” and illegal immigrants whom you look down at as being uneducated and unskilled; if you’re in competition with these people who don’t speak the language, and don’t have a base of support in the community – what does that say about you? If you’re so superior, why are you so afraid of these people?
I do not feel threatened by the wetbacks - they know to stay the fuck away from me just like the chinks and niggers and ragheads - I live in the most cultural diverse city in the world lead by Hillary Clinton, New York City - I know how they act and I know what they can do.

What I want to do is fix the cities and countries that they are fleeing from - what is it that you want to do for them???

(20-09-2016 09:02 AM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  I’m not arguing against the idea that corruption is rampant – I’m just wondering what precedent there is to suggest that Donald Trump is able or even willing to do anything about it. He seems pretty adept at gaming the system to his own advantage, there have been numerous fraud investigations, alleged mob ties, bribes paid to avoid fraud charges, etc. If by “knowing business,” and not being “afraid to shutdown a business,” you’re referring to his ability to swindle investors, file for bankruptcy, and safely escape on a golden parachute from one burning wreck after another, I’m not sure why the voter should consider this an admirable skill set or any kind of qualification to run the country.
You see, the constitution that organizes the government to make decisions concerning the prosecution of justice, was written 200 years ago; and it is absurd to believe that it is adequate for a modern sophisticated society that is as diverse as it is. The solution is to recognize that when a corporation is inadequately organized and accumulates debt and promises that it cannot meet, then that means it needs to be reorganized.


(20-09-2016 09:02 AM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  If he’s such a vaunted success why won’t he release his taxes? I suspect (and here’s where my own baseless allegations come in) that there’s something in there he desperately doesn’t want his supporters to know. Like he’s teetering on the brink of complete financial failure, or his financial ties to foreign governments would render him completely incapable of running the country without very real concerns about conflicts of interest.
I do not know why, but if he was doing something wrong don't you think the IRS would fucking tell us - why the fuck are they keeping their mouth's shut??? Who's paying them off to not prosecute the pompous ass???

Don't you think Hillary, or Obama, have enough clout to retrieve the returns and expose him for the fucking fraud that you accuse him of??? Why the fuck don't they just do it - if he's doing wrong why the fuck don't they charge him, and end this long drawn out nonsensical campaign??? What could possibly be the problem??? Your theory is of different political campaign between the corrupt politicians who cannot explain their lavish life styles; where as Trump did it legally.

(20-09-2016 09:02 AM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  Also the US Government isn't a business you can simply shut down and start a new one.
I'm, at least, four years ahead of you. My plan begins with the reordering of all of the municipal charters leading to the reordering of the state constitutions, and then the national charter. You, and all your diverse friends, are going to learn how to organize your communities using a scientific format for organizing a municipal charter.

And we are, essentially, do this all together - blacks and whites and Latinos and Asians and Muslims. It is going to be wonderful - too bad a Democrat politician, or a black person, couldn't figure out how to do it.

(20-09-2016 09:02 AM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  Donald Trump did not run to dismantle “the machine” or take the country back for working people.
You're silly - that is what his supporters believe

(20-09-2016 09:02 AM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  He did it to strengthen his brand and stroke his own ego and see himself on TV every day again. I don’t think (more conjecture here I admit) he ever DREAMED he’d get this far and I don’t think he has any interest in running the country.
You're silly. If something like that happens, his supporters are not going to roll-over, and be happy - they're going to revolt and it will probably be violent. it won't be the stupid riot shit we watch the niggers do every month - it will be "surgical."

(20-09-2016 09:02 AM)Mr. Boston Wrote:  His continuous campaign staff shake-ups, his lack of a meaningful ground game in many key states, The RNC’s focusing of funds away from him and into down-ballot campaigns lead me to believe what he’s really trying to do at this point is grease the skids for a defeat in November after which he can wail about corruption for awhile then ride out the rest of his hopefully short life doing the rounds on the weekend talk shows, writing op-ed pieces, and maybe even parlay the whole experience into a book deal and a show on Fox News.
You're deluded.

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
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