They Know Not What They Say...
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21-11-2013, 02:39 PM
RE: They Know Not What They Say...
(21-11-2013 01:22 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(21-11-2013 11:10 AM)Revenant77x Wrote:  Yeah that is what happens when you don't invest in your school system. In my neck of the woods our public schools are leagues better than your private schools (mainly cause they don't teach pseudoscience as fact) because we fund the hell out of them. It is one of many real world examples of how effective government can be if done correctly.

Have you seen any charts on the amount that's spent on education in America over time and the effect it's had? Please, find a source which you will find acceptable. Your public schools may or may nor be better than his private schools, but money probably isn't the reason why.

That's the rub it's not just the amount of money spent but how it is utilised. Effective Government is not easy but it does work.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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22-11-2013, 12:57 PM
RE: They Know Not What They Say...
(21-11-2013 02:39 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(21-11-2013 01:22 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  Have you seen any charts on the amount that's spent on education in America over time and the effect it's had? Please, find a source which you will find acceptable. Your public schools may or may nor be better than his private schools, but money probably isn't the reason why.

That's the rub it's not just the amount of money spent but how it is utilised. Effective Government is not easy but it does work.

Utilized* Your school sucks compared to mine. Tongue

Effective isn't nearly enough, it should also be efficient. Right now it's anything but. Also, you're the one that used the amount of money used as a measuring stick of quality. Our culture teaches that more expensive is better, but there are plenty of low cost universities that have excellent reputations. 50 American Examples here have good reputations and are not expensive. Some of these compete with the Ivy League schools on quality of education. Effectiveness is only part of the equation.

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22-11-2013, 01:39 PM
RE: They Know Not What They Say...
(22-11-2013 12:57 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  
(21-11-2013 02:39 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  That's the rub it's not just the amount of money spent but how it is utilised. Effective Government is not easy but it does work.

Utilized* Your school sucks compared to mine. Tongue

Effective isn't nearly enough, it should also be efficient. Right now it's anything but. Also, you're the one that used the amount of money used as a measuring stick of quality. Our culture teaches that more expensive is better, but there are plenty of low cost universities that have excellent reputations. 50 American Examples here have good reputations and are not expensive. Some of these compete with the Ivy League schools on quality of education. Effectiveness is only part of the equation.

One of the major costs is trying to lure good teachers. There is a massive shortfall of good quality teachers in this country because we don't pay them. I know several people who would love to be teachers but could not afford the pay cut to do so. First year teachers make under $20,000 a year and requires a masters degree or higher. When you break down all the hours they work (it's not a 9-3 job despite what some people think) they make under $10 an hour. If we want to improve the overall education in this country that would be the best place to start. Increase the pay for teachers but be much more selective about hiring them. A good teacher makes all the difference.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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22-11-2013, 01:58 PM
RE: They Know Not What They Say...
(22-11-2013 01:39 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  
(22-11-2013 12:57 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  Utilized* Your school sucks compared to mine. Tongue

Effective isn't nearly enough, it should also be efficient. Right now it's anything but. Also, you're the one that used the amount of money used as a measuring stick of quality. Our culture teaches that more expensive is better, but there are plenty of low cost universities that have excellent reputations. 50 American Examples here have good reputations and are not expensive. Some of these compete with the Ivy League schools on quality of education. Effectiveness is only part of the equation.

One of the major costs is trying to lure good teachers. There is a massive shortfall of good quality teachers in this country because we don't pay them. I know several people who would love to be teachers but could not afford the pay cut to do so. First year teachers make under $20,000 a year and requires a masters degree or higher. When you break down all the hours they work (it's not a 9-3 job despite what some people think) they make under $10 an hour. If we want to improve the overall education in this country that would be the best place to start. Increase the pay for teachers but be much more selective about hiring them. A good teacher makes all the difference.

Sure, pay teachers a fair wage. That is only a small fraction of educational costs though.

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22-11-2013, 02:15 PM
RE: They Know Not What They Say...
Teacher pay isn't it. At least not here.

Starting salaries for teachers in private schools are around $25K and top out at $35-37K. It all depend on the school. The private school teacher could eventually break the $50K mark, but they would have to be a large private school for a long time. Most of the time these private school have no benefits or if they do, they are terrible and/or too expensive.

Starting pay for a public school teacher is between $43K and $47K... depending on the district. As your tenure goes up, so does your pay... not to mention your benefits and retirement. Public school teachers have got really good benefits and retirement (my mom is one).

Both my parents are/were teachers, and they both taught in the public and private sectors of LA.

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22-11-2013, 02:56 PM
RE: They Know Not What They Say...
(22-11-2013 02:15 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  Starting pay for a public school teacher is between $43K and $47K... depending on the district. As your tenure goes up, so does your pay... not to mention your benefits and retirement. Public school teachers have got really good benefits and retirement (my mom is one).

Both my parents are/were teachers, and they both taught in the public and private sectors of LA.

Holy shit! That's extravagant compared to starting pay for the average Kansas teacher - $28K - the benefits and retirement are about average. But yea, starting pay for public school teachers here, is just above the poverty line.

In my brother's early years as a teacher, he was no stranger to the summer construction job just to make ends meet. He was a single guy, living out in the boondocks to ensure job security. He's a master teacher now living in a large city and we recently calculated he makes on average $24 dollars an hour.... which is what I make driving a truck part time.

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