Things God can't do
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05-03-2014, 09:15 AM (This post was last modified: 05-03-2014 09:42 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Things God can't do
(05-03-2014 03:11 AM)donotwant Wrote:  Anyway I compiled list of things god is not able to do based on http://www.iep.utm.edu/evil-log/ and http://www.letusreason.org/Apolo2.htm

  1. God is not able to lie.
  2. God is not able to cheat.
  3. God is not able to steal.
  4. God is not able to be unjust.
  5. God is not able to be envious.
  6. God is not able to fail to know what is right.
  7. God is not able to fail to do what he knows to be right.
  8. God is not able to have false beliefs about anything.
  9. God is not able to be ignorant.
  10. God is not able to be unwise.
  11. God is not able to cease to exist.
  12. God is not able to make a mistake of any kind.
  13. God is not able to contradict himself.
  14. God is not able to make another God.


Also here is platingas additional one "God is not able to make significantly free creatures and to causally determine that they will always choose what is right and avoid what is wrong."

He also blames natural evil on the adams sin(big fail).

Anyway what I find curious is that since god can do EVERYTHING which is not on this list he can protect people from violence.
We have police that protects people from violence and god can do what the police is trying to do without fail.
Therefore both free will is intact and nobody is getting hurt.

Also platingas defense doesn't address problem of heaven(which Robby posted about before) which is also in the article about problem of evil.

Another thing is that if we have lets say 2 holy texts which say different things. How do we determine which one of them is a lie? Because god is not able to lie by those parameters listed above if we find a lie it's not from god.
Also if we find anything immoral it is also not from god. But if we have 2 texts and they say 2 different things one of them has to be immoral. How do we determine which one?
It basically renders divine command theory useless since we have no way to make a difference between gods command and mans command if we just take it on faith.

Btw since god always knows what is right and is always doing what is right(by the parameters above). When he does not protect people from violence he is doing moral action. Does that mean police is doing an immoral action? Or doctors when they cure diseases god doesn't?
Also if we find 2 contradictory things in a holy text it means one of em is from man since god is not able to contradict himself. I think these parameters render lots of holy texts man made right off the bat.

Another problem is how do you distinguish from a truth written by man or a truth written by god. Because men are also capable of writing true things.
So if we find a so called holy text and find out that 50% of it is truth and moral and 50% is a lie and immoral. What do we do? How are they gonna prove the text is written by god? Especially if it has lies and immoral stuff in it.

It also proves that secular morality is the only morality that we have because we can't use anything else to determine if what is written in the book is moral or not.

Alvin Plantinga is a Catholic man, who knows nothing about the culture of the ancient Near East, about how their concept of evil developed, or why his god and it's moral system is totally inconsistent with the roots of his own faith, or how ridiculous the nonsense of the "fall" and "original sin" actually is, (or how and why it was cooked up). Just amazing for someone in his position.

He also never answered this : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthyphro_dilemma

As far as this is concerned : "God is not able to make significantly free creatures and to causally determine that they will always choose what is right and avoid what is wrong." ... a deity with that property is (not only not omnipotent), but is embedded in the structure of reality, thus (by definition) can't be the creator of the very reality it is required to exist within. I should stop there and take a Summer Session class from him, (assuming he still teaches one), and drive him nuts. Tongue

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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05-03-2014, 09:17 AM
RE: Things God can't do
Another objection as pointed out in the article is gods free will. God by his definition is unable to lie or do anything immoral or make mistakes. Does god have less free will then man does?
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05-03-2014, 09:24 AM
RE: Things God can't do
(05-03-2014 03:11 AM)donotwant Wrote:  
  1. God is not able to lie.
  2. God is not able to cheat.
  3. God is not able to steal.
  4. God is not able to be unjust.
  5. God is not able to be envious.
  6. God is not able to fail to know what is right.
  7. God is not able to fail to do what he knows to be right.
  8. God is not able to have false beliefs about anything.
  9. God is not able to be ignorant.
  10. God is not able to be unwise.
  11. God is not able to cease to exist.
  12. God is not able to make a mistake of any kind.
  13. God is not able to contradict himself.
  14. God is not able to make another God.

What God are we talking about? Because, if it's the God of the OT or NT, many of those are complete BS: at least 4, 5, 6, 7, 12, and 13.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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05-03-2014, 09:26 AM
RE: Things God can't do
(05-03-2014 09:24 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(05-03-2014 03:11 AM)donotwant Wrote:  
  1. God is not able to lie.
  2. God is not able to cheat.
  3. God is not able to steal.
  4. God is not able to be unjust.
  5. God is not able to be envious.
  6. God is not able to fail to know what is right.
  7. God is not able to fail to do what he knows to be right.
  8. God is not able to have false beliefs about anything.
  9. God is not able to be ignorant.
  10. God is not able to be unwise.
  11. God is not able to cease to exist.
  12. God is not able to make a mistake of any kind.
  13. God is not able to contradict himself.
  14. God is not able to make another God.

What God are we talking about? Because, if it's the God of the OT or NT, many of those are complete BS: at least 4, 5, 6, 7, 12, and 13.

Exactly. Which proves that at least part of the bible can't be written by god and can't be true Big Grin
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05-03-2014, 09:29 AM (This post was last modified: 05-03-2014 10:13 AM by rampant.a.i..)
Things God can't do
(05-03-2014 08:02 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  Erm...... I'm not sure mere humans could ever represent a god via a list (?) Moreso, the mere fact that humans have always humanized a god in order to explain or better understand their god has been suspect from day one. Wtf........ is it a god or Not a god? Cause if it's god......then yanno what? We don't know - cause mortals could likely NOT really appreciate what a god is, much less what a god does or doesn't do. So...


just sayin

Historically Christianity has approached God with negative ascription, formatted like this list.

Presuming to list attributes of God in a positive tense (God is _____) was considered blasphemous, for the reasons you outlined.

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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05-03-2014, 09:37 AM
Things God can't do
(05-03-2014 09:15 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Alvin Plantinga is a Catholic man, who knows nothing about the culture of the ancient Near East, about how their concept of evil developed, or why his god and it's moral system is totally inconsistent with the roots of his own faith, or how ridiculous the nonsense of the "fall" and "original sin" actually is, (or how and why it was cooked up). Just amazing for someone in his position.

Glad to hear someone else dismantle Alvin Plantinga. He's an intellectually dishonest fraud, and has no business being in Epistemology.

“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, Sherlock Holmes
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