Things I'd like to know about... hell
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18-07-2013, 08:25 AM
Question Things I'd like to know about... hell
just stumbled upon this:

[Image: 800px-NWS_Hell_MI-CC3.jpg]

but joke aside, it seems that christians (maybe muslims too) think that this whole hell thing is as real as the air we breathe and the tea I drink. That raises questions... they might be stupid questions, but perhaps someone can answer:

1. Where exactly is hell located? Ok, we know that when we try to find heaven, we won't find anything in the clouds, outer space looks a wee bit dark for a place like heaven, but heaven isn't the topic just yet. Wink

2. What happens there? I hear about like being on fire for eternity, but how does that work? In a crematory, every body will turn to ashes, and the body doesn't feel any pain since it's dead. So in order to burn "for eternity", how would the body need to be "preserved" or how do they come back to life so they can feel the pain after already being burned or otherwise decomposed?

3. How do they keep the fire running? It would need a tremendous amount (and waste) of energy. Is there any special technology behind this? I mean, like 2000 years ago the word "technology" didn't even exist, but perhaps satan has somehow become more efficient and ecological? Going nuclear might even destroy hell itself though...

4. It's said satan is the boss in hell, is there any communication between him and its inhabitants? Up in heaven, the supposedly chosen ones spend their time worshipping god only, no free time, nothing, at least at his college's allah the guys can fuck 72 virgin chicks first before moving to do business as usual.

All right, that's all I can think of so far. Anyone?

"Some part of our being knows this is where we came from. We long to return, and we can, because the cosmos is also within us. We're made of star stuff. We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." (Carl Sagan)
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18-07-2013, 09:04 AM
RE: Things I'd like to know about... hell
TsTsTs...

There is no such thing like hell, silly. Or haven.

Big Grin

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18-07-2013, 09:07 AM
RE: Things I'd like to know about... hell
tell that the believers... they think it's a real thing, or am I wrong here? Many have said that they had to struggle with it even after they de-converted, so it must have been "real" for them. So from this assumption, those questions came to my mind. Wink

"Some part of our being knows this is where we came from. We long to return, and we can, because the cosmos is also within us. We're made of star stuff. We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." (Carl Sagan)
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18-07-2013, 09:45 AM
RE: Things I'd like to know about... hell
(18-07-2013 09:07 AM)pxlgirl Wrote:  tell that the believers... they think it's a real thing, or am I wrong here? Many have said that they had to struggle with it even after they de-converted, so it must have been "real" for them. So from this assumption, those questions came to my mind. Wink

This is the carrot and the stick of religion. If your good and follow the rules you get the carrot (Heaven) if your naughty and don't follow all our rules you get the stick (hell). Ever notice how hell is spelled out in vivid detail to invoke all the horror yet heaven is rather vaguely described? This is because they want Heaven to sound appealing and letting someone make his own fantasy is easier than trying to find something that would appeal to everyone, just ask a believer to describe heaven to you and you will get a vision or banality or horror depending.

Hell, however, is easy everyone fears fire at a primal level. Pain and torment is something that everyone can understand. If they get to you young enough and constantly reinforce the idea what is a truly silly notion can become all consuming. The Patriarch of the bible (both the legendary ones and the way a Man is supposed to rule his house) is a cruel and capricious figure. He does not give love unless he is obeyed in all things and the slightest disobedience is met with harsh physical punishments (spare the rod...) it seems alien to us now but if you look at Muslim honor killings that is how the bible tells you to act. Disobedience deserves death. Since God is nothing but a caricature of what the Ideal man was in early Hebrew tribal times He must act the same way. His love is conditional, his anger is overwhelming, his punishments outweigh his rewards, he rules by fear not love.

In recent times God has gotten a make-over (and it has been very recently up until the 1960's no one claimed that the god of the bible was love) he is no longer the scarey patriarch that rules with an iron fist but a loving god who cares for you. This of course brings up the problem of Hell, because a loving all powerful God would never allow Hell to exist. The rules are also inherently unfair. Hitler was a confirmed Catholic (unsure how much he actually practiced but he was religious in his writing) Gandhi was a hindu. If the bible is right then Hitler went to Heaven and Gandhi went to hell, because it doesn't matter what you do on earth as long as you say the magic words. This is why Christianity is Evil, it divorces morality from actions and praises blind belief over doing whats right. Again if the Christian Bible is correct then Hitler went to heaven but his victims went to hell.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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18-07-2013, 09:51 AM
RE: Things I'd like to know about... hell
"Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!

But He loves you."
- George Carlin

Obama promised you change. Reach in your pocket, feel those coins? There's your change...
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18-07-2013, 10:08 AM
RE: Things I'd like to know about... hell
You can't get answers for questions like "how does the fire keep going?" because they believe in magic, and magic needs no explanation. I think they think it's all done by supernatural means, and located outside of space and time, or something.
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18-07-2013, 10:10 AM
RE: Things I'd like to know about... hell
(18-07-2013 08:25 AM)pxlgirl Wrote:  1. Where exactly is hell located? Ok, we know that when we try to find heaven, we won't find anything in the clouds, outer space looks a wee bit dark for a place like heaven, but heaven isn't the topic just yet. Wink

A quick and dirty guide:

Hell is supposedly located beneath the earth, based on the old ideas of a three-part "universe": 1. The Firmament (Heaven), 2. The Earth, and 3. The Underworld (Hell). Per Wikipedia:

The universe of the ancient Israelites was made up of a flat disc-shaped earth floating on water, heaven above, underworld below.[6] Humans inhabited earth during life and the underworld after death, and the underworld was morally neutral;[7] only in Hellenistic times (after c.330 BCE) did Jews begin to adopt the Greek idea that it would be a place of punishment for misdeeds, and that the righteous would enjoy an afterlife in heaven.[8] In this period too the older three-level cosmology was widely replaced by the Greek concept of a spherical earth suspended in space at the centre of a number of concentric heavens.[6]

Quote:2. What happens there? I hear about like being on fire for eternity, but how does that work? In a crematory, every body will turn to ashes, and the body doesn't feel any pain since it's dead. So in order to burn "for eternity", how would the body need to be "preserved" or how do they come back to life so they can feel the pain after already being burned or otherwise decomposed?

Hell is actually more of a New Testament doctrine. It's a place of torment, although different denominations define that in different ways. Some say it is a literal place of fiery torment, others a dark place where folks are "burned" by an eternity of unfulfilled desires and separation from God. Still other factions believe that there is no literal hell - the unsaved are merely annihilated, and Universalists think that everyone gets saved. And just for fun, there are the doctrines of Purgatory and Limbo (Catholicism).

As for eternal burning, it seems that the unsaved also get transformed bodies that enable them to feel pain forever without being consumed. From Wiki:

Hell is generally defined as the eternal fate of unrepentant sinners after this life.[3] Hell's character is inferred from biblical teaching, which has often been understood literally.[3] Souls are said to pass into hell by God's irrevocable judgment, either immediately after death (particular judgment) or in the general judgment.[3] Modern theologians generally describe hell as the logical consequence of the soul using its free will to reject union with God.[3] It is considered compatible with God's justice and mercy because God will not interfere with the soul's free choice.[3]

In a parable about "The Rich Man and Lazarus" in Luke 16:19-31, the poor man Lazarus enjoys a blissful repose in the "bosom of Abraham" (Luke 16:22), while the rich man who was happy in life is tormented by flame in Hades (Luke 16:23-24), the two realms being separated by a great chasm (Luke 16:26).

Quote:3. How do they keep the fire running? It would need a tremendous amount (and waste) of energy. Is there any special technology behind this? I mean, like 2000 years ago the word "technology" didn't even exist, but perhaps satan has somehow become more efficient and ecological? Going nuclear might even destroy hell itself though...

God keeps it running forever, because, well, He's God.

Quote:4. It's said satan is the boss in hell, is there any communication between him and its inhabitants? Up in heaven, the supposedly chosen ones spend their time worshipping god only, no free time, nothing, at least at his college's allah the guys can fuck 72 virgin chicks first before moving to do business as usual.

He's not really the boss of anything after Judgment Day - per Wikipedia:

Revelation 19:20: "And the beast[5] was taken, and with him the false prophet[6] that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."

Revelation 20:10 "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever."

Revelation 20:14-15 "Then Death and Hades[7] were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire."[NKJV]

Revelation 21:8 "But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death."[8]

Hope that helps! Evil_monster
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18-07-2013, 10:11 AM
RE: Things I'd like to know about... hell
ok so, now it becomes even more confusing. I get the "symbolic" part of the carrot ant stick method and how pain or torture on its own would cause some discomfort, understandably. But when believers claim that unbelievers (or those who believe in the supposedly wrong stuff) will end up in this hell, they do mean it literately, don't they? So why in the fuck wouldn't they be able to answer those few simple questions? Wink Come on, if they make the claim that a god (or their god, satan or the easter bunny) exists, just as a part of the natural world, then anything associated with it would also be a part of the natural world, just like heaven or hell. So what's the point if any believer comes up with their own weird vision of both places, that is supposed to exist, for everyone to see (if they look at it)? A while ago, I have posted a thread asking if their god, according to them, is as real as my tea cup. The answer was, yes, it is seen as that real. I can tell where my tea cup is, I can describe it, taste it, touch it... if it's not too hot so you burn your paws.

"Some part of our being knows this is where we came from. We long to return, and we can, because the cosmos is also within us. We're made of star stuff. We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." (Carl Sagan)
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18-07-2013, 10:14 AM
RE: Things I'd like to know about... hell
Offtopic Can we talk about how there is also a place called Mianus ("My Anus") Connecticut.

Ok carry along now.
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18-07-2013, 10:16 AM
RE: Things I'd like to know about... hell
(18-07-2013 10:14 AM)Ferdinand Wrote:  Offtopic Can we talk about how there is also a place called Mianus ("My Anus") Connecticut.

HELL NO! Big Grin Evil_monsterHoboLaughat

"Some part of our being knows this is where we came from. We long to return, and we can, because the cosmos is also within us. We're made of star stuff. We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." (Carl Sagan)
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