Things are getting nasty...
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20-04-2014, 05:33 PM
RE: Things are getting nasty...
Your ex sounds a lot like my older brother! He was a 1000 times a better choice to raise his daughter than the girl's mother! Still didn't turn out so well. Soon as my niece began to have a mind of her own, though, he threw her ass out!

Not saying your ex would do that, too, but why take a chance? Your children are under 18 (oh thank the law Rolleyes ) so they have to do what YOU say! She might hate your guts for it, for a while, but at least she'll be with the parent who loves her for a daughter instead of the parent that loves her for what she might bring him in the way of some sort of gain.

But I sowwy, too Hug Be patient! Eventually it will be easy for your kids to see which one of their parents actually gives a damn! Hug

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20-04-2014, 05:52 PM
RE: Things are getting nasty...
Finally something I might be able to help with. As a teen my self I often times wish I could live with my father( the thing keeping me away is that he lives in camden). It is really a want for change. If it is anything like me, than she wants a change. Parents not having to worry about kids that eventually hang with those kids are less strict. I.E my dad is less worried about cleaning his house than my mom does hers. If she does live with your dad she would eventually want to return to you. It is really a wanting of visiting a parent in hopes to get something they are not getting from the other. Just be fun and talk to her, play a game with her, hell learn what fandoms you both like and join it together. Hope I helped.

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20-04-2014, 05:57 PM
RE: Things are getting nasty...
Find out what exactly it is that she likes better over there... whether it is something he allows that you don't, the promise of something in the near future, something he does for her... and then you will know what you are dealing with .

And remember - actions speak louder than words. Combine your talk with an outing together, something maybe you have never done together before. Hug her. Things like that.

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21-04-2014, 03:18 AM
RE: Things are getting nasty...
That's a pretty crappy situation ya got there, EA Sad
You got a difficult road ahead (no matter what happens) but stick to your guns, hold your head high and do what you think is right.
Take solace in the fact that one day, when your kids are older, they will know how much of a manipulating arsehat your ex is.
Hug

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21-04-2014, 04:28 AM
RE: Things are getting nasty...
(20-04-2014 01:17 PM)Escape Artist Wrote:  Well, it's begun...

I had gotten complacent over the past couple of months or so because there's been little drama, aside from the fact that my kiddos do tend to act out quite a bit whenever they get back from visiting their father, and now...

Well, now my oldest child has informed me that she wants to live with her dad and not with me. That the only reason she "chose" me thus far is because she was able to go back to her old school again, and because she wanted to be with her brother. But now she is saying she wants to finish out the school year here at her old school and then she wants to go back to the big school that they went to for a semester, and that she also wants to live with my ex.

She accused me of several things via text yesterday. She said that I never spend time with them, that I am "always on my stupid computer" / she said that things were great where we living in town and that "you separated from daddy and you messed up my life and ****'s (my son) life and daddy's" and that I "need to wake up" / she said that her and my son want to "...move in with daddy. Will you allow us to do that without court because I am old enough to decide and we will finish the school year at **** (their old school that they're back at now), start next year at **** (the big school), and if you want to go then you can go and not be a part of this family" - which is all shit that my ex has spewed over all the years of our marriage, and that last bit were words he shot my way when I was struggling so much with my decision to leave him or not. It was like he'd possessed her and was talking through her.

She told me still further that every time their dad brings them back here they ask him not to take them back, but that he still does. I told her throughout all of this that I was sorry she was upset and angry, but that I love her anyway. Told her that she's every right to feel whatever way she feels.

Shockingly, I was not all that hurt, as I knew these were not her words, but his. It was an obvious parroting of everything that he has ever said over the years and I am wondering now, what the fuck do I do?

Do they really want to live with him? Or is it all truly just parroting?

I have no idea what to do. The divorce will be filed within at least a few weeks, I should think, and apparently he is wanting me to sit down and agree to letting him have the kids, without going to court. I've told my daughter that when the time is come for her to do so, she needs to be honest with the judge and tell them where she really wants to be. I'm not going to try and make her or bribe her or cajole her into "choosing" me. But neither am I going to sit down without representation with a man who manipulated and controlled me for years on end and fool myself for even one second that he would offer anything at all amenable to me or the interests of his children. I got a lawyer because I know how he is.

I know I've just said this, but I've no idea what to do. It's hard when you know without a shred of doubt that you've done the right thing by leaving an emotionally manipulative and controlling person and that you are still painted as the villain. It's knowing that that's how I would be portrayed to my children that, I think, has kept me sane thus far. I knew he would do this. I hoped he wouldn't, but I knew that he would. That is just the kind of person he is.

So my choices are to fight for custody of my children - which, usually mothers do get their children (at least that is what I keep being told) - and then have them hate me for going against their wishes of being with their dad. Or I fight to have what's fair for me financially and make sure he doesn't gouge me in that way and yet let the kids live with him and honor their wishes in doing so.

This is so very fucked up. Right now I feel like things are going just as you'd expect them to when dealing with a man like this. I just don't know what my next move is.

Thanks for letting me vent.

Sucks to read, really.

I'm not really sure what to write. To be honest, this post is has dredged up some feels in the back of my mind I thought I had successfully locked, bolted and hidden away, so thanks for that.

If I, as a veteran child of separation, can give you any advice it's this; speak to your children independently and ask for their opinions, their feelings. Do it slowly, and gently and in total confidence. Once you know what they truly feel, then you should act.
Just keep it clear in your mind that it is a very painful, and in my experience, confusing time for kids and you need to be sure that you are, and that they know you are, always available when they need you.

Outside of that, I don't feel I can rightfully say anything else without just projecting, so I had best be away from this and get to work reburying some emotions.

Best of luck.

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21-04-2014, 05:09 AM (This post was last modified: 21-04-2014 05:32 AM by War Horse.)
RE: Things are getting nasty...
Your story sounds exactly like my wifes when we first met, although she had only one daughter (12 years old). Within a year of her and I getting married, the kid hated living with us and blamed her mother for all the woes.

I had already straightend the ex out a long time ago when it came to dealing with my now wife and told him that we would agree to do the right thing for the daughter.

Well, the kid moved in with her father for a bit over 2 years when she was 14. At 16 she started to rebel and saw the control freak her father was, and moved back in with her mother and I.

At 18, the girl was out of control and she moved in with a boyfriend, whom she later married and had 2 kids of her own. Problem was, her husband was a control freak just like her father was. they soon divorced after her second child (her husband left her for another women), screwing with her about child support and custody.

She had by then admitted to her mother that she didnt realise how things can go like this, but never really appologised for blaming her for breaking up the marriage.

The kid's found a new caring boyfriend now and are engaged to be married at the end of the year.

My point is, that things might take a while to work out, but it seems they always do.

Let your daughter go and find out for herself what kind of guy your ex is, and enjoy the torture she will put him through at her age. Wink

If bullshit were music some people would be a brass band.
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21-04-2014, 05:20 AM
RE: Things are getting nasty...
Not that it's my business and not being a mum, I hesitate to add anything.

Of the answers I've read above, I'm inclined to agree with the young Hobbit. This would be in consideration of the longer term relationship.
I don't think you can be criticised later if you treat her as an adult now and have an open dialogue about it.

I'm thinking that this might be a "grass is greener" thing, so I think I would be supportive but not too supportive... I mean, don't start jumping up and down and shouting "FREEDOM" when she is around Smile

Alternatively, given what you said about withdrawing during your depression, could this be a child's test?
Is she a mature 13 and would it be easy to sit down and talk about options and consequences?

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21-04-2014, 06:02 AM
RE: Things are getting nasty...
I just came to give Hug and Heart
I love you EA, and I am really sorry you're going through this.

Swing with me a while, we can listen to the birds call, we can keep each other warm.
Swing with me forever, we can count up every flower, we can weather every storm.
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21-04-2014, 08:03 AM
RE: Things are getting nasty...
A large part of the problem is that I always have (and still do), when faced with a problem, see merit in any of the possible routes that could be taken, and that makes coming to a decision in any kind of timely manner difficult.

After all, it took roughly TWO YEARS for me to finally decide that what was best for me was to leave my husband. Two years. I don't have that kind of time in regards to this situation.

As I see it, I could:

A - Go with a plan similar to War Horse's wherein I honor her wishes and let her go off with dad (which, in that case, what to do with my son? he hasn't expressed wishes directly to me of wanting to live with his dad, though of course he doesn't like that I am tough on him in regards to his homework, lol; and my daughter has said she does not want to be away from him, so how could I part them and feel right about it?) and just place my hope in that she will see how he is soon enough and want to come back home with me.

B - Go with the "fight for her (and my son) because I'm the better option as primary parent" though he would probably think he is the better of the two of us. And depending on how hard he fights my having primary custody of the kids, it could be a long and drawn-out affair.

I admit, part of me is just tired. It took a lot of effort and humility and just plain courage to fight enough to get away from him for myself. Now I must fight for two more people. And sometimes I'm afraid I don't have enough strength left. That cowardly part of me just wants to give up.

I feel awful even saying that. A mom isn't supposed to say things like that. But I can't say that I've ever felt the way a mom is "supposed" to feel. Or maybe I simply don't fit my own mother's expectations of what a mom should be. Which, in that case, I'm doing pretty good. Laugh out load

I see my kids as individuals with their own needs and desires. I also see myself as imperfect, as everyone is. I don't always know best. And I resented my parents for acting like they were perfect and knew all the right answers. No one does. Not even adults. So what if I'm wrong in thinking that she's best off with me?

Ugh. Is it any wonder I get myself all mixed up? Welcome to my mind. Tongue

Things coming up in the future are that my children will be introduced to the boyfriend. Right now, they've just seen me talking with my friends on occasion, and (my son at least) had a positive reaction to it. I don't want to continue to play into my ex's expectations and keep myself isolated just because he didn't approve of my having friends unless he chose them. I want my kids to know that it's okay to have a wide variety of people on whom you rely and share your life with.

I want them to see that it is okay for mom to have friends, too. That even adults need friends and such to keep them afloat through the hard times in life.

Anyway, I'm rambling.

Point is, I don't want to play into my ex's games. He's apparently going to move into a townhome which is of course two stories tall and which is something the kids have always wanted. I love townhouses, don't get me wrong, but those fuckers ain't cheap. I have no idea how he plans to afford it.

And then, much of my current income is going toward lawyer fees, which means that I can't keep up with his "buying their affections" game. Not that I want to do that anyway. I just hate that it feels like I'm having to "compete" with him over the children. They are not prizes to be won.

As far as other stuff concerning my daughter...

She seems to forget that I was depressed, though I know they saw me drinking and that it stuck in their minds because they told me they didn't like it, many times over. You don't just forget something like that. Not even when you are a kid. I don't think she truly has forgotten, she simply quoted back to me what my ex said, when he was trying to deny that I was ever truly depressed over anything.

My daughter came to me yesterday and wanted to know if she could practice driving up and down a little gravel road close to my parent's house so I went and did that with her. Honestly it is easier to get into some of my son's stuff than my daughter's because she's into a lot of things that I'm just not and I'm not going to pretend to be into, either. However, she does like to go outside and do things (whereas my son is almost constantly glued to his games and whatnot) so there is that. We could take walks and we do ride the four-wheeler together on occasion.

Maybe we just had a bad week last week. I've been a bit down as of late and when I get like that I just want to hole up and hide from the world. Plus, my son has had sooo much homework (thank you, State of Texas, for your idiotic standardized tests!!! Dodgy ) that any spare time I have gotten I've just dived into computer stuff (chatting with friends, surfing the net, etc.).

Jesus, I'm fucking rambling. I'll shut up now.

Oh, I haven't put Hobo in here at all! Shame on me. Blush

Heart Hobo Heart

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21-04-2014, 08:25 AM
RE: Things are getting nasty...
(21-04-2014 08:03 AM)Escape Artist Wrote:  A large part of the problem is that I always have (and still do), when faced with a problem, see merit in any of the possible routes that could be taken, and that makes coming to a decision in any kind of timely manner difficult.

After all, it took roughly TWO YEARS for me to finally decide that what was best for me was to leave my husband. Two years. I don't have that kind of time in regards to this situation.

As I see it, I could:

A - Go with a plan similar to War Horse's wherein I honor her wishes and let her go off with dad (which, in that case, what to do with my son? he hasn't expressed wishes directly to me of wanting to live with his dad, though of course he doesn't like that I am tough on him in regards to his homework, lol; and my daughter has said she does not want to be away from him, so how could I part them and feel right about it?) and just place my hope in that she will see how he is soon enough and want to come back home with me.

B - Go with the "fight for her (and my son) because I'm the better option as primary parent" though he would probably think he is the better of the two of us. And depending on how hard he fights my having primary custody of the kids, it could be a long and drawn-out affair.

I admit, part of me is just tired. It took a lot of effort and humility and just plain courage to fight enough to get away from him for myself. Now I must fight for two more people. And sometimes I'm afraid I don't have enough strength left. That cowardly part of me just wants to give up.

I feel awful even saying that. A mom isn't supposed to say things like that. But I can't say that I've ever felt the way a mom is "supposed" to feel. Or maybe I simply don't fit my own mother's expectations of what a mom should be. Which, in that case, I'm doing pretty good. Laugh out load

I see my kids as individuals with their own needs and desires. I also see myself as imperfect, as everyone is. I don't always know best. And I resented my parents for acting like they were perfect and knew all the right answers. No one does. Not even adults. So what if I'm wrong in thinking that she's best off with me?

Ugh. Is it any wonder I get myself all mixed up? Welcome to my mind. Tongue

Things coming up in the future are that my children will be introduced to the boyfriend. Right now, they've just seen me talking with my friends on occasion, and (my son at least) had a positive reaction to it. I don't want to continue to play into my ex's expectations and keep myself isolated just because he didn't approve of my having friends unless he chose them. I want my kids to know that it's okay to have a wide variety of people on whom you rely and share your life with.

I want them to see that it is okay for mom to have friends, too. That even adults need friends and such to keep them afloat through the hard times in life.

Anyway, I'm rambling.

Point is, I don't want to play into my ex's games. He's apparently going to move into a townhome which is of course two stories tall and which is something the kids have always wanted. I love townhouses, don't get me wrong, but those fuckers ain't cheap. I have no idea how he plans to afford it.

And then, much of my current income is going toward lawyer fees, which means that I can't keep up with his "buying their affections" game. Not that I want to do that anyway. I just hate that it feels like I'm having to "compete" with him over the children. They are not prizes to be won.

As far as other stuff concerning my daughter...

She seems to forget that I was depressed, though I know they saw me drinking and that it stuck in their minds because they told me they didn't like it, many times over. You don't just forget something like that. Not even when you are a kid. I don't think she truly has forgotten, she simply quoted back to me what my ex said, when he was trying to deny that I was ever truly depressed over anything.

My daughter came to me yesterday and wanted to know if she could practice driving up and down a little gravel road close to my parent's house so I went and did that with her. Honestly it is easier to get into some of my son's stuff than my daughter's because she's into a lot of things that I'm just not and I'm not going to pretend to be into, either. However, she does like to go outside and do things (whereas my son is almost constantly glued to his games and whatnot) so there is that. We could take walks and we do ride the four-wheeler together on occasion.

Maybe we just had a bad week last week. I've been a bit down as of late and when I get like that I just want to hole up and hide from the world. Plus, my son has had sooo much homework (thank you, State of Texas, for your idiotic standardized tests!!! Dodgy ) that any spare time I have gotten I've just dived into computer stuff (chatting with friends, surfing the net, etc.).

Jesus, I'm fucking rambling. I'll shut up now.

Oh, I haven't put Hobo in here at all! Shame on me. Blush

Heart Hobo Heart

I guess part of me feels for your daughter *I myself has watched my mom go through 4 divorces, 3 as a kid/teenager* I'm not trying to be rough on you with what I'm about to say, I just want to be honest.

About what you said above, about her forgetting about you being depressed. Shes still very young, and probably doesn't really know/care much if you were depressed. What she is noticing is what you said above about appearing tired, and having a hard time being interested in the things she is interested which to a 13 year old could very well translate into "well shes not interested in me"

The things she is most likely seeing is a dad who is fighting hard for their attention (even if its not healthy and he sounds like a crazy jerk) while noticing you possibly giving up a little bit. As for her interests...I know its hard to pretend to be interested in things shes into, but you have to try to at least have a passing interest. Especially if her father is doing that.

Kids notice more in these situations then they get credit for sometimes. You obviously love your kids. If you really want her to stay then you need to find the energy somewhere to fight. I stick with what I said in my last post as well. Communication really is important.

I hope I didnt come across mean in that. I just wanted to give my opinion as someone who was a kid who went through divorce many times. I hope things are feeling a little bit less tense now. Hug
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