Things that make me crazy
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10-11-2012, 06:21 PM
RE: Things that make me crazy
(10-11-2012 06:06 PM)Free Wrote:  
Quote:Actually that's not true. Empty space is NOT "nothingness". It is just space that has nothing in it. In fact it's not even nothing, it's filled with a very small amount of hydrogen and helium (maybe one or two atoms per cubic meter), and the space in-between these atoms is filled with virtual particles, that is particles that come into existence due to the laws of quantum mechanics, and immediately collide with their anti-particle, resulting in a net loss/gain of zero mass/energy. The pressure exerted by these virtual particles can actually be used to generate minute (like, almost negligible, but still there) amounts of energy.

Agreed. Space is not a vacuum. However, since it is not a vacuum, then there can be no such thing as empty space. Hense, space is "something."

Er, that's not quite what I said.

Space is a container. It can hold stuff. Sometimes it holds lots of stuff. When it holds nothing, or almost nothing, then we say it's holding "vacuum". Meaning the space in question contains no or negligible amounts of matter.

Just because you take a glass of water, and empty out the water, doesn't mean the glass stops existing. It doesn't mean we need to consider the profound philosophical question of if you have something that isn't a glass and does not contain air or water and may not exist at all, is it still a glass? The answer is trivial: No.

Not all philosophical questions have meaning. Sometimes it's just wanking. This appears to be one of those questions.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
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10-11-2012, 06:37 PM
RE: Things that make me crazy
Quote:Space is a container.


What's on the outside of the container?

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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10-11-2012, 06:38 PM
RE: Things that make me crazy
(10-11-2012 06:37 PM)Free Wrote:  
Quote:Space is a container.


What's on the outside of the container?
the container is all there is Hobo

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10-11-2012, 06:39 PM
RE: Things that make me crazy
(10-11-2012 06:37 PM)Free Wrote:  
Quote:Space is a container.


What's on the outside of the container?


Dunno. Let's see what the scientists come up with, shan't we? Speculation without evidence leads to woo and/or supernatural claims.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
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10-11-2012, 07:00 PM
RE: Things that make me crazy
(10-11-2012 06:39 PM)Phaedrus Wrote:  
(10-11-2012 06:37 PM)Free Wrote:  What's on the outside of the container?


Dunno. Let's see what the scientists come up with, shan't we? Speculation without evidence leads to woo and/or supernatural claims.
Agreed, however, as the title of this thread says, these are "things that make me crazy."

Science is plugging along on what appears to be mostly theoretical conjecture based upon reasonable and logical conclusions garnered from trial and error. Every now and then a "course correction" leads them off the wrong trail and onto a new one.

I somehow believe the answer will be ... infinite space & eternal universe. The Big Bang will be just one of many Big Bangs in infinite space. I subscribe to the multiple Big Bang theory because, to me, it's the only thing that makes sense at this point.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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10-11-2012, 07:06 PM
RE: Things that make me crazy
(10-11-2012 02:29 PM)Free Wrote:  Space:

What the hell is it? People keep saying- aside from planets, stars, comets etc,- space is empty of substance. Basically they say empty space is nothingness.

But how can that be? If it was nothingness, how then could there be distance between two points in space? If there was nothing in between the Earth and Mars, wouldn't Earth and Mars be touching each other?

Supposed empty space should not be considered as a void, or as nothingness. It should be classified as something that has an existence.
/
Quote:this Void or Nothingness is not correct .. that empty space as it appears is now what scientists call "dark matter" and "dark energy" .. that void has a mass.. and has an energy to it as well..

The Big Bang

People keep saying that everything began with a Big Bang. Well where the hell did the matter that created the Big Bang come from in the first place? From nothing? How do we get something from nothing?

Expanding Universe

What the hell is it expanding into? If there was nothing there in the first place, how the hell do you expand into nothing?


Nothingness:

Does it even exist?

Blink


Someone help me here ... before I end up in the Funny Farm.

Okay .. All of your use of the word Nothingness is incorrect..

It has been proven that the universe resides in this 'fabric of space" known as dark matter .. the dark energy is the driving force that is expanding our universe...



here this should help you out..




Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -- Voltaire
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10-11-2012, 07:24 PM
RE: Things that make me crazy
(10-11-2012 07:06 PM)ddrew Wrote:  
(10-11-2012 02:29 PM)Free Wrote:  Space:

What the hell is it? People keep saying- aside from planets, stars, comets etc,- space is empty of substance. Basically they say empty space is nothingness.

But how can that be? If it was nothingness, how then could there be distance between two points in space? If there was nothing in between the Earth and Mars, wouldn't Earth and Mars be touching each other?

Supposed empty space should not be considered as a void, or as nothingness. It should be classified as something that has an existence.
/

The Big Bang

People keep saying that everything began with a Big Bang. Well where the hell did the matter that created the Big Bang come from in the first place? From nothing? How do we get something from nothing?

Expanding Universe

What the hell is it expanding into? If there was nothing there in the first place, how the hell do you expand into nothing?


Nothingness:

Does it even exist?

Blink


Someone help me here ... before I end up in the Funny Farm.

Okay .. All of your use of the word Nothingness is incorrect..

It has been proven that the universe resides in this 'fabric of space" known as dark matter .. the dark energy is the driving force that is expanding our universe...



here this should help you out..



Has it really been "proven?" From what i am reading, it is still a hypothesis.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
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10-11-2012, 07:48 PM
RE: Things that make me crazy
(10-11-2012 02:29 PM)Free Wrote:  Space:


What the hell is it? People keep saying- aside from planets, stars, comets etc,- space is empty of substance. Basically they say empty space is nothingness.

But how can that be? If it was nothingness, how then could there be distance between two points in space? If there was nothing in between the Earth and Mars, wouldn't Earth and Mars be touching each other?

Supposed empty space should not be considered as a void, or as nothingness. It should be classified as something that has an existence.

The Big Bang


People keep saying that everything began with a Big Bang. Well where the hell did the matter that created the Big Bang come from in the first place? From nothing? How do we get something from nothing?

Expanding Universe


What the hell is it expanding into? If there was nothing there in the first place, how the hell do you expand into nothing?


Nothingness:

Does it even exist?

Blink


Someone help me here ... before I end up in the Funny Farm.

If I may, I would like to have a shot at answering these questions, keep in mind I have not read other responses, and shall be drawing on my very basic understanding of this kind of stuff.... It's not my area of familiarity mind you.

However, I would recommend Lawrence Krauss's A Universe From Nothing, from what I recall, it covers a lot of what you asked about.


Space:

It is not entirely accurate the say that space is empty of substance, aside from all the elements floating about the universe, you've got dark matter (and antimatter) floating around too, occupying the space zones in between the large masses you mentioned.


The Big Bang:

Everything did come from the Big Bang (or rather Big Expansion), basic elements gravitated together and formed suns which spawned lighter and heavier elements which in turn lormed everything else, figured I should get that out of the way first of all.

The fact of the matter is nobody really knows how the Singularity got where it was, though there are many hypothesis to explain; some say Dimensional Rift where it slipped in from a different universe or dimension. Others follow a recursion version of the Big Crunch, where all matter in the previous universe cooled and contracted into what was our Singularity, which expanded into our universe, and will so follow the pattern of expansion and contraction endlessly. For now, we simply don't know (though I do tend toward the B.C. myself).


Expanding Universe:

It's not really expanding into anything, it simple expands as a result of the Expansion (Big Bang), it is essentially, to my understanding, expanding into unoccupied void, or nothing if you do so prefer. And will continue to do so until collapse and re-expansion.


Nothingness:

Well you really have to define "nothing" first, don't you? If it an absence of physical matter, then yes it can. An absence of everything, i doubt it. Though your question is a bit of a paradox "Can nothingness exist?"...

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11-11-2012, 01:32 AM
RE: Things that make me crazy
I think I mentioned a few weeks ago that I had worked out how the whole thing started and how it will end and how therefore William Lane Craig gets it wrong when he rambles on about a spaceless, timeless entity. But no one picked me up on it.

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11-11-2012, 03:45 AM
RE: Things that make me crazy
(10-11-2012 06:37 PM)Free Wrote:  
Quote:Space is a container.


What's on the outside of the container?
The inside.

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