Things that piss me off about Ken Ham and his ilk
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09-05-2015, 09:15 AM
Things that piss me off about Ken Ham and his ilk
1. Atheism/humanism is a religion. This is ridiculous on its face. The reason they make this claim is so they can say, "If you disallow creationism in the classroom because it's religious, then you have to disallow evolution because it's aldo religious." We need to squash this. It doesn't help that the first humanist manifesto describes humanism as religious. This allows Ken Ham to point that and say, "Look! They admit it!" And the he goes on to associate virtually all science with humanism

2. Creation science. Talk about an oxymoron! It's the opposite of science. Science follows the evidence wherever it leads. "Creation science" starts with the conclusion and twists evidence to support it.

These things strike me as dangerous. What organizations are most effective at countering this?
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09-05-2015, 06:58 PM
RE: Things that piss me off about Ken Ham and his ilk
He's a con man soaking idiots for money.

Give him credit for what he does well.

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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10-05-2015, 01:07 PM
RE: Things that piss me off about Ken Ham and his ilk
What pisses me off about Ken is that he's a bloody Aussie.

Yeah, we have our share of dickheads too.
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10-05-2015, 01:18 PM
RE: Things that piss me off about Ken Ham and his ilk
Right now my primary pet peeve is my woefully ignorant debate opponent pulling out out all of the stops on the way to Stupid Town by citing Answers in Genesis.

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10-05-2015, 03:37 PM
RE: Things that piss me off about Ken Ham and his ilk
(09-05-2015 09:15 AM)peacefrog Wrote:  1. Atheism/humanism is a religion. This is ridiculous on its face. The reason they make this claim is so they can say, "If you disallow creationism in the classroom because it's religious, then you have to disallow evolution because it's aldo religious." We need to squash this. It doesn't help that the first humanist manifesto describes humanism as religious. This allows Ken Ham to point that and say, "Look! They admit it!" And the he goes on to associate virtually all science with humanism

2. Creation science. Talk about an oxymoron! It's the opposite of science. Science follows the evidence wherever it leads. "Creation science" starts with the conclusion and twists evidence to support it.

These things strike me as dangerous. What organizations are most effective at countering this?

Accusation of atheism being religion is not only about what you say. While this certainly could be and probably is reason for which believers spout this nonsense, I think there are also other reasons. Mainly it would be trouble with comprehending that one can not believe; believers have problem with realising that not everyone needs belief so they try to label atheists as believers. Also disbelief of others could be quite uncomfortable for believers, cause if someone thinks that religion is nothing more than fairy tale, then it may cause doubt in said religious person.

As for organization, if one consider good school organization then I think it would be most effective at combating indoctrination and simple lack of knowledge.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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10-05-2015, 04:56 PM
RE: Things that piss me off about Ken Ham and his ilk
Well, we have our two second-graders in a good independent school. One of them aspires to be a paleontologist after having studied fossils in science class, so there doesn't seem to be much danger of her becoming a creationist.

But I'm wondering if Freedom From Religion Foundation, American Humanist Association, or some other organization is worthy of financial support in protecting other kids from the attempts of Christian fundamentalists to invade the public schools.
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11-05-2015, 01:02 AM
RE: Things that piss me off about Ken Ham and his ilk
(10-05-2015 04:56 PM)peacefrog Wrote:  Well, we have our two second-graders in a good independent school. One of them aspires to be a paleontologist after having studied fossils in science class, so there doesn't seem to be much danger of her becoming a creationist.

But I'm wondering if Freedom From Religion Foundation, American Humanist Association, or some other organization is worthy of financial support in protecting other kids from the attempts of Christian fundamentalists to invade the public schools.

So it's seems that good school is enough.

As for which organization is worth the support I have no idea.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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11-05-2015, 07:36 AM
RE: Things that piss me off about Ken Ham and his ilk
(10-05-2015 01:18 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Right now my primary pet peeve is my woefully ignorant debate opponent pulling out out all of the stops on the way to Stupid Town by citing Answers in Genesis.

Actually, I thought that was pretty damn funny when he lobbed that at you. Many posts make me only chuckle, but I outright laughed out loud when he did that.

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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11-05-2015, 09:15 AM
RE: Things that piss me off about Ken Ham and his ilk
The ACLU and the FFRF are both effective in countering religion in schools.
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15-05-2015, 12:35 PM
RE: Things that piss me off about Ken Ham and his ilk
(09-05-2015 09:15 AM)peacefrog Wrote:  1. Atheism/humanism is a religion. This is ridiculous on its face. The reason they make this claim is so they can say, "If you disallow creationism in the classroom because it's religious, then you have to disallow evolution because it's aldo religious." We need to squash this. It doesn't help that the first humanist manifesto describes humanism as religious. This allows Ken Ham to point that and say, "Look! They admit it!" And the he goes on to associate virtually all science with humanism

These things strike me as dangerous. What organizations are most effective at countering this?

While humanism contends to follow reason and the results of science, it would be a far stretch to call reason or science a religion even if humanism through some incredible sequence of events was officially seen as a religion. However, I am afraid that as rabid as those conservative xtians are, I would not put it pass them to continuously keep on putting obstacles at the state and local levels to the teaching of science.
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