This is why Militant Atheism is necessary
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07-10-2012, 06:45 PM
RE: This is why Militant Atheism is necessary
Quote:Earmuffs, if you expect me to apologize for being an American, or to feel shame because I am an American, you'll get none of that from me. I am very grateful to be an American as opposed to a New Zealander, European, or anything else. You'll get no pity parties from me. Proud to be an American, even with all the faults this country has.

I never asked you to apologize.

Quote:Mr. New Zealander, I know what real lack of freedom feels like. I know what real oppression is. The United States might have it's flaws, but it is a million times better than a lot of places on this planet...including the place I was born. But why let the facts get in the way of some fashionable anti-Americanism, right?

I never said it wasn't, I simply said it wasn't the best. I never said it was the worst, that place is firmly held by Somalia. What I am saying if you care to calm your tits down is that it's not the best. America portrays itself as being the best thing since sliced bread. It's not. That place has several contenders, Sweden, Norway, Switzerland, Singapore, Monaco and a few others, none of which is America.
It's not "fashionable", it's fact. Oh and for the record I don't just pick on America, I think you'll find I'll have a few words to say about a lot of countries, but America is the biggy.

And when you banned from this mysteries country you obviously can't have shopped around for a new one very well. Of course America is gonna take you in, they take in anyone and everyone. It doesn't make them the best thing since sliced bread and it doesn't moot any of the points I mentioned earlier. If anything it just makes you more blind because now, as you say, you'd die for America (which would defeat the purpose of you immigrating to America in the first place if you're just going to throw your life away). Patriotism, it's on-par with religion.

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08-10-2012, 01:56 PM
RE: This is why Militant Atheism is necessary
Paul Bron apparently doesn't abide by the separation of church and state in the USA. He should be fired (not re-elected) on that basis alone. It's not terribly bright of him to openly admit it either, so maybe he should be fired for not being smart enough to do the job too.

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08-10-2012, 02:25 PM
RE: This is why Militant Atheism is necessary
I don't see this as evidence as a need for 'militant atheism'. There are plenty of religious folks who do not feel the same way as this nutjob. The problem arises when people try to change the science to fit the religion instead of changing their religion to fit the scientific fact. I would welcome any Christian, or whatever religion, to replace this guy as long as they didn't to to prevent education in science.

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08-10-2012, 02:35 PM
RE: This is why Militant Atheism is necessary
(07-10-2012 06:45 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  
Quote:Earmuffs, if you expect me to apologize for being an American, or to feel shame because I am an American, you'll get none of that from me. I am very grateful to be an American as opposed to a New Zealander, European, or anything else. You'll get no pity parties from me. Proud to be an American, even with all the faults this country has.

I never asked you to apologize.

Quote:Mr. New Zealander, I know what real lack of freedom feels like. I know what real oppression is. The United States might have it's flaws, but it is a million times better than a lot of places on this planet...including the place I was born. But why let the facts get in the way of some fashionable anti-Americanism, right?

I never said it wasn't, I simply said it wasn't the best. I never said it was the worst, that place is firmly held by Somalia. What I am saying if you care to calm your tits down is that it's not the best. America portrays itself as being the best thing since sliced bread. It's not. That place has several contenders, Sweden, Norway, Switzerland, Singapore, Monaco and a few others, none of which is America.
It's not "fashionable", it's fact. Oh and for the record I don't just pick on America, I think you'll find I'll have a few words to say about a lot of countries, but America is the biggy.

And when you banned from this mysteries country you obviously can't have shopped around for a new one very well. Of course America is gonna take you in, they take in anyone and everyone. It doesn't make them the best thing since sliced bread and it doesn't moot any of the points I mentioned earlier. If anything it just makes you more blind because now, as you say, you'd die for America (which would defeat the purpose of you immigrating to America in the first place if you're just going to throw your life away). Patriotism, it's on-par with religion.

I'm going to agree with earmuffs on this one. To an extent. If you define patriotism as just willing to die for your country than Nazi Germany was full of patriots. To me patriotism is doing what is best for your country, even if the government opposes it. Our Founding Fathers were such men, they all went against their government. Being a patriot often does mean doing what is right, even if it is illegal. As for other countries being better, of course that is a matter of opinion. As for me, I would still choose America, but I value freedom more than anything else, and America is the most free successful country in the world in my opinion. My second choice would probably be Australia but it would be a distant second. Europe has to much government interventionism for my liking. I'd stay for a few years, but that's be about my limit.

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08-10-2012, 04:31 PM (This post was last modified: 08-10-2012 04:51 PM by Ozzie.)
RE: This is why Militant Atheism is necessary
Nice try Darklight, but there is a huge difference between me and the NAZI patriots. I do not follow the dear leader blindly. I freely acknowledged that this country isn't perfect, but I am a patriot because I firmly believe that the good in this country outweighs the bad...and that despite all the shortcomings there is still a lot to be proud about. Look, we are all critical thinkers. I'm not going to sit there blindly and give a thumbs up when this country does something crazy in the world, but I won't sit here either blindly spewing hate and anti-Americanism, and pretend that we are a dark cloud in the history of the world (as I've seen some here do in the past.)

However, I can't say that I blame you for your concern, because for a group of people who are supposed to be critical thinkers, atheists can be extreme conformists and just as dogmatic as the non-atheist. Case in point, the Atheism + crowd with the "this is our ideology which you must adhere to 100% or you are our enemy." They didn't quite phrase it like that but close enough. And let's not forget The Amazing Atheist, who is as pro-critical thinking as one can get, except when it comes to politics...there he is pro-Democrats 100% (and they are above reproach) but will get worked up over the slightest thing a Republican does. I mentioned him because he is very public, but I've come across quite a few atheists who check critical thinking at the door when it comes to politics.

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08-10-2012, 04:49 PM
RE: This is why Militant Atheism is necessary
(07-10-2012 10:35 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Out of curiosity, what's your country of birth?

Cuba. I freely acknowledge that most Cubans in the US can travel to Cuba to visit family and such, but in my case I have actually been banned from ever setting foot in Cuba...so unless Communism ever falls, I will never see the country of my birth again.

My family was always anti-Communist and participated in Human Rights groups, which brought a lot of negative attention from the State down on us. In my case, I advocated for free and open elections, and said some harsh things about the government in public. I was harassed by the authorities for my political views, and eventually had a warrant issued on me for "Enemy Propaganda," which is the charge they use on anyone who criticizes the government openly. I managed to flee and get to South America (it was either that or do 10-20 years in prison.) But when the political situation changed in the country I was in, and they became much closer to the Castro regime, my situation became perilous and it got to the point where I was advised to leave or risk deportation back to Cuba...so I fled to the US and asked for political asylum and got it. I still have a ban on me traveling to Cuba, and not that I would because to do so would be very stupid given the political situation which led to the whole thing.

(07-10-2012 10:35 AM)Vosur Wrote:  Anyway, I see why you would be a 'militant' atheist, but what reason do other people, especially people living outside of the USA, have for being that way?

Fine, consider yourself lucky that you live in a fairly secular society, but we don't have that luxury in the states. But don't get too comfortable, because the demographics in Germany are changing fast, and radical Islam is starting to become a problem in your country. There's been several honor killings in Germany in the past few years, and things will only get worse over time.

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08-10-2012, 07:33 PM
RE: This is why Militant Atheism is necessary
Quote:Cuba.

Lolwut?
And you go on about how America took you and not some other country?

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08-10-2012, 07:54 PM
RE: This is why Militant Atheism is necessary
(08-10-2012 04:31 PM)Ozzie Wrote:  Nice try Darklight, but there is a huge difference between me and the NAZI patriots. I do not follow the dear leader blindly. I freely acknowledged that this country isn't perfect, but I am a patriot because I firmly believe that the good in this country outweighs the bad...and that despite all the shortcomings there is still a lot to be proud about. Look, we are all critical thinkers. I'm not going to sit there blindly and give a thumbs up when this country does something crazy in the world, but I won't sit here either blindly spewing hate and anti-Americanism, and pretend that we are a dark cloud in the history of the world (as I've seen some here do in the past.)

However, I can't say that I blame you for your concern, because for a group of people who are supposed to be critical thinkers, atheists can be extreme conformists and just as dogmatic as the non-atheist. Case in point, the Atheism + crowd with the "this is our ideology which you must adhere to 100% or you are our enemy." They didn't quite phrase it like that but close enough. And let's not forget The Amazing Atheist, who is as pro-critical thinking as one can get, except when it comes to politics...there he is pro-Democrats 100% (and they are above reproach) but will get worked up over the slightest thing a Republican does. I mentioned him because he is very public, but I've come across quite a few atheists who check critical thinking at the door when it comes to politics.

Woah, woah, woah! I wasn't trying to insinuate that you are like a Nazi! I was only trying to show that your definition of Patriotism can be the difference between it being a good thing or a bad thing. I was using the most extreme example off the top of my head for it being a bad thing. Apologies if that is how it read. As for "The Amazing Atheist" that guy is a complete and total fucking moron who gives us a bad name if you ask me. He is not a critical thinker, he just hears some points from some critical thinkers and repeats it. He is a tool. The only videos I saw of him was on politics, but it doesn't matter to me. You don't just turn critical thinking off and on. It is either something you do or don't. Critical thinkers sometimes speak or act without having enough information but they don't stop thinking critically. At least that's the way I feel. I don't know shit about Atheism +, I only recently heard of this 'movement', doesn't seems like my cup of tea from what you described.

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08-10-2012, 10:56 PM
RE: This is why Militant Atheism is necessary
When our country is run by mindless theists that create law based off their bible, it's no wonder our country suffers so much. I don't believe we even have a choice in who runs for office; we are given a few candidates, all of which are a joke, it's like being given the choice to lose a leg or an arm. You don't think many of us look at our government and laugh? Our government is a steaming pile.

Nothing can be done about our countries problems over night, it will take time for the population to favor people willing to make a change. No, our country is not the best, maybe far from it, but it is a great place to live and bashing it does no one any good. Earmuffs, it almost sounds like you're waiting for a reply from us saying how you're right and that our country sucks. Well you're right about all the problems our country has but our country does not suck.

Look what a problem issues like gay marriage are. Something as simple as two people wanting to get married is a problem because god said two men can't get married. This just shows you what our country is dealing with. We are fighting our government as well as the bible. We can't win this war until we stop using the bible as a crutch in government; it's absolutely destroying everything the founding fathers wanted. Since the majority rules in these matters, the theists rule.

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