This makes me sick
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21-10-2013, 06:01 PM
RE: This makes me sick
(21-10-2013 04:23 PM)Smercury44 Wrote:  
(21-10-2013 04:14 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  At least this could never happen in America.

That case is a little different. Sounds like the mother was using meth during her pregnancy. If, and ONLY IF, it could be scientifically proven that her illegal drug use resulted in the death of the baby, I might agree with some legal recourse. Maybe not a murder charge.

Locking up people for drug dependency (escaping from a miserable debilitating life of poverty), hows that going for the USA prison population.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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21-10-2013, 06:14 PM
RE: This makes me sick
Not locking her up for drug dependency, but the possible fact that she directly caused the death of her child because of it.

For full transparency, I'm against the war on drugs, and the fact that our prisons are bursting at the seams with non-violent offenders.
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22-10-2013, 02:51 AM
RE: This makes me sick
How many women in El Salvador went to the hospital and were treated for miscarriage but were not prosecuted?
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22-10-2013, 07:45 AM
RE: This makes me sick
(21-10-2013 04:03 PM)Smercury44 Wrote:  http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/201...while.html

Women in El Salvador are being imprisoned for suspected abortion after having miscarriages.

As a woman who had a miscarriage at 14 weeks during a wanted pregnancy, this really makes me sick. I can't imagine being accused of intentionally killing my baby during that difficult time, let alone serving a ten year jail sentence as a result. A mother already feels guilt, and wonders what she did wrong. The answer is usually nothing. Miscarriages are common, just not talked about often.

I can't help but also think of the consequences that could arise for women who fear seeking medical attention when a miscarriage has occurred, for fear of prosecution.

I agree, this is bad and just one of the countless reasons abortion should not be legislated. The odd thing too from the article is it sounds like abortions are allowed in some cases. So they'll allow some abortions, but when it's questionable that there even was an abortion (as it MUST be with the miscarriages), they'll prosecute. Freakin' idiots in power. Dodgy

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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22-10-2013, 10:52 AM (This post was last modified: 22-10-2013 11:22 AM by Reltzik.)
RE: This makes me sick
(22-10-2013 02:51 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  How many women in El Salvador went to the hospital and were treated for miscarriage but were not prosecuted?

Article doesn't say. Probably a decent number. That's not the point. The problem isn't how prevalent the prosecutions themselves are (though being put on trial for a miscarriage is pretty bad), it's the pall of fear they cast over the entire childbirth process. Laws like this exist for the purpose of deterrence, and even a few public prosecutions can deter thousands of women from seeking medical assistance when their life may depend on it. THAT'S a big, big, big problem.

Also, I'm remembering a case a few years back in... Indiana? Illinois? Iowa? One of those three I's. Wish I remembered enough details to Google it. Where a pregnant woman just past the legal time limit for an abortion had a fall down the stairs and miscarried. In the hospital she's talking to the nurse about the pregnancy... which is pretty natural, if you think about it... and mentioned that early in the pregnancy she'd considered having an abortion. The nurse calls the cops and suddenly the woman's being arrested under the theory that she deliberately threw herself down the stairs with the intention of having a miscarriage, simply on the basis of that one statement being construed as intent. (EDIT: Found the story. http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2010/0...-feticide/ She was arrested, charged, and jailed for two days. Also, she WASN'T into her third trimester yet, the nurse just erroneously put that down on her chart. Also, she didn't miscarry, she just went in to make sure everything was okay after her fall, and she was arrested for the "attempt" of feticide.)

Now extrapolate what happens if such a woman is so poor as to need a criminally overworked public defender, and add in the large percentage of criminal cases in the US that are resolved by plea bargaining.

Any women out there, TELL ME that makes you happy about the idea of seeking medical care following a miscarriage. (Er, insofar as anything can make you happy in the context of needing medical care following a miscarriage. <---- FAIL. But you get what I'm trying to ask. EDIT: Or, apparently, the idea of seeking medical care to PREVENT a miscarriage.) Tell me that even this one story of an arrest... not a charge, not a trial, not a conviction and a sentencing, I don't know how far the case went, but JUST an arrest... doesn't fill you with fear. (EDIT: Found out how far it went. Arrested, charged, jailed for 2 days before charges were dropped.)

Yet another reason why anti-abortion laws suck and are written by idiots. I wonder how many of the politicians who are trying to make American abortion law like El Salvador's would jump at the chance to write a fairly straightforward law criminalizing all types of abortion, and if asked whether that includes "spontaneous abortion", say, "Yeah! All types of abortion means all types of abortion!" Without even knowing what spontaneous abortion is. Because people like Michelle Bachman, as just one of many examples, aren't noted for their critical thinking skills, and that's exactly the type of politician that the "pro-life" movement is trying to put into power.

This doesn't make me sick. It makes me mad.
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22-10-2013, 11:04 AM
RE: This makes me sick
It was Iowa.

http://www.portlandmercury.com/BlogtownP...e-pregnant

Quote:Woman In Iowa Arrested For Falling Down the Stairs While Pregnant

[Image: reality.jpg?imgmax=800]
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22-10-2013, 11:21 AM
RE: This makes me sick
I call bullshit on that storys perspective, my magic Occam's ball says she admitted to attempted suicide/abortion.
However that is not a crime in any civilized country and nor should it be, counseling and care should have been called for, not the cops.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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22-10-2013, 11:32 AM
RE: This makes me sick
(22-10-2013 11:04 AM)Minimalist Wrote:  It was Iowa.

http://www.portlandmercury.com/BlogtownP...e-pregnant

Quote:Woman In Iowa Arrested For Falling Down the Stairs While Pregnant

Looks like someone found the story before I did, but my link includes more details. EDIT: That came off mean, didn't mean it to.
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