This week could spell nationwide riots in major cities (Ferguson,MO outcome)
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25-11-2014, 12:16 PM
RE: This week could spell nationwide riots in major cities (Ferguson,MO outcome)
FYI, if a person has malicious intent and is phsyically capable of doing harm with their hands, they are in most cases legally considered to be armed. Thus, the media favored phrase "unarmed black teenager" is factually inaccurate.

If you attack someone with your fists, you can be charged with assault with a deadly weapon. Especially if you are either larger and stronger than them or have training in hand to hand combat.

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25-11-2014, 12:38 PM
RE: This week could spell nationwide riots in major cities (Ferguson,MO outcome)
(25-11-2014 12:16 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(25-11-2014 12:03 PM)Im a humble little Theist Wrote:  As for change, if anything needs to change, its getting our Youth to adopt a sure standard of right from wrong morality --- something that Secular Humanism in our culture and Public Schools is powerless to do and only adds to the moral decay of a Nation .

Ah yes. The morality that comes from your particular Jebus, no doubt. The morality that 33,000 sects of Christians cannot agree what "right from wrong" even means. Morality you say ?

Why YES ... the highest form of morality and ethics known to mankind. That which comes form the specific teachings of Jesus CHrist and the Creators 10 Commandments on how to live properly. If youre going to attack the Christian Faith, can you concentrate on any of THESE teachings and tell us why they are so incredulous to follow ? Start with ANY of the 10 Commandments for starters. For every one you try to mock and defame, ill present the competing official Secular Humanist affirmation from the Humanist Manifesto and show you exactly how it has led to the societal moral decay that is plaguing America today. Up for the challenge then ???
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25-11-2014, 01:12 PM
RE: This week could spell nationwide riots in major cities (Ferguson,MO outcome)
(25-11-2014 12:16 PM)yakherder Wrote:  FYI, if a person has malicious intent and is phsyically capable of doing harm with their hands, they are in most cases legally considered to be armed. Thus, the media favored phrase "unarmed black teenager" is factually inaccurate.

If you attack someone with your fists, you can be charged with assault with a deadly weapon. Especially if you are either larger and stronger than them or have training in hand to hand combat.

I agree. Fisticuffs involved means assault on a police officer, but news prefers to focus on the fact he was unarmed. Was the response of Officer Wilson correct at the time? It's unknown, as there isn't enough evidence to support the fact that Brown stepped forward to assault him further. There is eye witness testimony, but that can be unreliable, and many people changed their stories and committed perjury to the grand jury.

All that is next is a civil suit against Officer Wilson. Personally, I think the grand jury made the right call based on the lack of sufficient evidence to make a case from it.
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25-11-2014, 01:50 PM
RE: This week could spell nationwide riots in major cities (Ferguson,MO outcome)
(25-11-2014 01:12 PM)Kaepora Gaebora Wrote:  
(25-11-2014 12:16 PM)yakherder Wrote:  FYI, if a person has malicious intent and is phsyically capable of doing harm with their hands, they are in most cases legally considered to be armed. Thus, the media favored phrase "unarmed black teenager" is factually inaccurate.

If you attack someone with your fists, you can be charged with assault with a deadly weapon. Especially if you are either larger and stronger than them or have training in hand to hand combat.

I agree. Fisticuffs involved means assault on a police officer, but news prefers to focus on the fact he was unarmed. Was the response of Officer Wilson correct at the time? It's unknown, as there isn't enough evidence to support the fact that Brown stepped forward to assault him further. There is eye witness testimony, but that can be unreliable, and many people changed their stories and committed perjury to the grand jury.

All that is next is a civil suit against Officer Wilson. Personally, I think the grand jury made the right call based on the lack of sufficient evidence to make a case from it.


I concur.
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25-11-2014, 02:16 PM
RE: This week could spell nationwide riots in major cities (Ferguson,MO outcome)
(25-11-2014 12:38 PM)Im a humble little Theist Wrote:  
(25-11-2014 12:16 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Ah yes. The morality that comes from your particular Jebus, no doubt. The morality that 33,000 sects of Christians cannot agree what "right from wrong" even means. Morality you say ?

Why YES ... the highest form of morality and ethics known to mankind. That which comes form the specific teachings of Jesus CHrist and the Creators 10 Commandments on how to live properly. If youre going to attack the Christian Faith, can you concentrate on any of THESE teachings and tell us why they are so incredulous to follow ? Start with ANY of the 10 Commandments for starters. For every one you try to mock and defame, ill present the competing official Secular Humanist affirmation from the Humanist Manifesto and show you exactly how it has led to the societal moral decay that is plaguing America today. Up for the challenge then ???

I know this was meant for Bucky but mind if I say something? I'll play along and even humor you with a sure, same enough rules. It doesn't matter. People are gonna do what they're gonna do no matter how "divine" or "perfect" the laws are. There was plenty of murder, theft, ext. in ye olden days with the church in rule. Will always have it. Just a sad part of life, darlin'. And if you wanna pretend that America was all righteous with a god helping us make choices, there's various examples of it not being so well. I'll whip out the example of the Manifest Destiny. Yknow, when we decided god said we needed to claim all of America? Was it right for us to slaughter thousands of Native American and push them into reservations just because god said where they had been living was ours? I'm sure he did say that. After all, this is a land blessed for us by god, right? We needed more elbow room so gods choice was right. Anyways, no matter what manifesto or commandments you put in place for people to follow, people are going to break them. That's the way the world works with or without a god.

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25-11-2014, 04:43 PM
RE: This week could spell nationwide riots in major cities (Ferguson,MO outcome)
(25-11-2014 12:38 PM)Im a humble little Theist Wrote:  
(25-11-2014 12:16 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Ah yes. The morality that comes from your particular Jebus, no doubt. The morality that 33,000 sects of Christians cannot agree what "right from wrong" even means. Morality you say ?

Why YES ... the highest form of morality and ethics known to mankind. That which comes form the specific teachings of Jesus CHrist and the Creators 10 Commandments on how to live properly. If youre going to attack the Christian Faith, can you concentrate on any of THESE teachings and tell us why they are so incredulous to follow ? Start with ANY of the 10 Commandments for starters. For every one you try to mock and defame, ill present the competing official Secular Humanist affirmation from the Humanist Manifesto and show you exactly how it has led to the societal moral decay that is plaguing America today. Up for the challenge then ???

The specific teachings of Jewsus and the Ten Commandments are the highest possible form of morality, you say?

Tell me: do you hate your family?
Also: which Ten Commandments? Moses was dictated them three times according to the book and they were different.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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25-11-2014, 04:45 PM
RE: This week could spell nationwide riots in major cities (Ferguson,MO outcome)
(25-11-2014 12:38 PM)Im a humble little Theist Wrote:  
(25-11-2014 12:16 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Ah yes. The morality that comes from your particular Jebus, no doubt. The morality that 33,000 sects of Christians cannot agree what "right from wrong" even means. Morality you say ?

Why YES ... the highest form of morality and ethics known to mankind. That which comes form the specific teachings of Jesus CHrist and the Creators 10 Commandments on how to live properly. If youre going to attack the Christian Faith, can you concentrate on any of THESE teachings and tell us why they are so incredulous to follow ? Start with ANY of the 10 Commandments for starters. For every one you try to mock and defame, ill present the competing official Secular Humanist affirmation from the Humanist Manifesto and show you exactly how it has led to the societal moral decay that is plaguing America today. Up for the challenge then ???

Morals didn't come from the mythical jesus...or the ten commandments, those were borrowed from already established societal norms, like the majority of it, a complete fabrication and plagiarization from older myths. odd that the great mythical creator didn't realize one of his creations was equal to others, thus slavery is wrong, and put that on the ten commandments, no no, worship no false gods....covet not thy neighbor, much more important than DONT RAPE CHILDREN, DONT ENSLAVE FELLOW HUMAN BEINGS. Here let me help you with moral theory, since you seem a bit....unschooled in that subject; here is a paper I wrote on this subject, enjoy. Read, learn, evolve...

Moral Theology is the study of how persons live in response to what God has done for them (Mueller 221).

Morality is concerned with human conduct but goes to a deeper level of personhood, such that our conduct is a reflection of who we are, a reflection of our character (Mueller 221).

Ethics can be defined as a discussion of the formation of human conduct… How responsible human beings capable of critical judgment should live using reflection on fundamental issues in description of concrete cases (Mueller 221).

Conscience is the voice of God written in our hearts, in accordance with the second Vatican Council. Natural law is considered one of the major sources of moral theology and answers the question: how do I know what is good or evil? Christians believe that natural law has been a factor in our decisions of what is morally right and wrong, good and evil (Mueller 222 – 227).

“This people who may personally and individually be moral and good people and have no intention of conflict and harm on others often share a Christian theory called the collective guilt “social sin.” (Mueller 257). The depths that theists go to fabricate the conception of sin knows no bounds, here you can be a good person yet you still have “social sin”. John Paul II said that social sins are “collective behavior of certain social groups, big or small, or even of whole nations or blocks of nations” (Mueller 258). Social sin becomes personal sin of individuals through complicity, indifference, or reluctance of those in a position to exert influence for change who do not do so (Mueller 258).

Catholic social teaching looks to gospel teaching to form the moral foundation the Catholic approach to questions of social justice. And assist the disciple in the ongoing task of reflecting on the challenge of Jesus in the sermon on the Mount and in discerning what it means in a consumer, technological, and globalized society to be poor in spirit and to embrace a sorrowing and the lowly (Mueller 260).


Secular morality is the aspect of philosophy that deals with morality outside of religious traditions. Modern examples include humanism, freethinking, and most versions of consequentialism. Additional philosophies with ancient roots include those such as skepticism and virtue ethics. Greg M. Epstein states that, "much of ancient Far Eastern thought is deeply concerned with human goodness without placing much if any stock in the importance of gods or spirits. Other philosophers have proposed various ideas about how to determine right and wrong actions. An example is Immanuel Kant's categorical imperative: "The idea that actions can only be considered moral if they could be imitated by anyone else and produce good results."

A variety of positions are apparent regarding the relationship between religion and morality. Some believe that religion is necessary as a guide to a moral life. This idea has been with us for nearly 2,000 years. There are various thoughts regarding how this idea has arisen. For example, Greg Epstein suggests that this idea is connected to a concerted effort by theists to question nonreligious ideas: "conservative authorities have, since ancient days, had a clever counter strategy against religious skepticism—convincing people that atheism is evil, and then accusing their enemies of being atheists.

Others eschew the idea that religion is required to provide a guide to right and wrong behavior. Interestingly the Westminster Dictionary of Christian Ethics states that religion and morality "are to be defined differently and have no definitional connections with each other". Some believe that religions provide poor guides to moral behavior.

Popular atheist author and biologist Richard Dawkins, writing in The God Delusion, has stated that religious people have committed a wide variety of acts and held certain beliefs through history that are considered today to be morally repugnant. He has stated that Adolf Hitler and the Nazis held broadly Christian religious beliefs that inspired the Holocaust on account of antisemitic Christian doctrine, that Christians have traditionally imposed unfair restrictions on the legal and civil rights of women, and that Christians have condoned slavery of some form or description throughout most of Christianity's history. Dawkins insists that, since Jewish and Christian interpretations of the Bible have changed over the span of history so that what was formerly seen as permissible is now seen as impermissible, it is intellectually dishonest for them to believe theism provides an absolute moral foundation apart from secular intuition. In addition, he argued that since Christians and other religious groups do not acknowledge the binding authority of all parts of their holy texts (e.g., The books of Exodus and Leviticus state that those who work on the Sabbath and those caught performing acts of homosexuality, respectively, were to be put to death.), they are already capable of distinguishing "right" from "wrong." (Boghossian 248).

The well-known passage from Dostoyevsky's The Brothers Karamazov, "If God is dead, all is permitted," suggests that non-believers would not hold moral lives without the possibility of punishment by a God. This is absurd as all one has to do is look at Denamrk or Sweden to see that these largely atheist areas enjoy being at the top tier of civilization. This is broken down in great detail in a book by Phil Zuckerman, "Society without god".

Phil Zuckerman, associate professor of sociology at Pitzer College in California, in his article, "Is Faith Good For Us" states the following: "A comparison of highly irreligious countries with highly religious countries, however, reveals a very different state of affairs. In reality, the most secular countries-those with the highest proportion of atheists and agnostics-are among the most stable, peaceful, free, wealthy, and healthy societies. And the most religious nations-wherein worship of God is in abundance-are among the most unstable, violent, oppressive, poor, and destitute."

A study by Gregory S. Paul, entitled "Cross-National Correlations of Quantifiable Societal Health with Popular Religiosity and Secularism in the Prosperous Democracies: A First Look," was done and the study's conclusion was that there was an inverse relationship between religion and poor societal health rates. What that means is that the higher the level of religious belief in a country, the lower the level of societal health (more violent crimes, suicides, teen pregnancies, etc.).

So it seems that a plethora of evidence exists to show that not only do we not need religion in our lives to be good humans, but that having it in our lives can be counter-productive and unhealthy.

Works cited

Mueller, J.J., Theological Foundations: Concepts and Methods for Understanding the Christian Faith. Winona: Anselm Academic, Christian Brothers Publications, 2011. Print.

Boghossian, Peter. A Manual for Creating Atheists. Durham: Pitchstone Publishing, 2013. Print.

Zuckerman, Phil. Society without god: What the least religious nations can tell us about contentment. New York: New York University Press, 2008. Print.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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25-11-2014, 04:56 PM (This post was last modified: 25-11-2014 05:02 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: This week could spell nationwide riots in major cities (Ferguson,MO outcome)
(25-11-2014 12:38 PM)Im a humble little Theist Wrote:  Start with ANY of the 10 Commandments for starters.

1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Why not? The fuck makes you so special? Who died and made you god?

2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

You want we should just throw away all sculpture and carvings. Yeah, fuck that. Pretty sure this dude is neither in heaven above, nor in the earth beneath, nor in water under the earth so he don't count.
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3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain.
God damn you. God damn you all to Hell.




4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
The sabbath starts on Friday at sunset and finishes at sunset on Saturday. Worshipping on Sunday is just fucking blasphemous.

I'll stipulate to commandments 5-10 though.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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25-11-2014, 05:02 PM
RE: This week could spell nationwide riots in major cities (Ferguson,MO outcome)
The bottom line is not one of the many mythical Gods created by humans had anything to do with the lack of parenting in regards to this 6-4 260 lb "kid". Mom and Dad have every right to be furious... with themselves.

You can't tell me this kid just had a bad day in terms of respecting others. I have no proof whatsoever but I would bet the house based on the actions of Mr. Brown bitch slapping that store owner and taking his shit that Mr. Brown did what he wanted most of the time. It wouldn't surprise me if mom was proud of that. As a parent myself I would be embarrassed if my children acted this way.

Attitude, Discipline, and Respect

Through MMA training my child has learned this from day one. Despite the ability to protect oneself if absolutely necessary, respecting others and showing great character is above all the most important thing you can achieve. So who needs bullshit religion anymore? That's archaic crap and you don't learn how to defend yourself from rapist manipulative Sunday school teachers. My kids show leadership and great character when times are tough. You can keep your mythical brainwashing.
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25-11-2014, 05:04 PM
RE: This week could spell nationwide riots in major cities (Ferguson,MO outcome)
(25-11-2014 05:02 PM)dirtstar Wrote:  The bottom line is not one of the many mythical Gods created by humans had anything to do with the lack of parenting in regards to this 6-4 260 lb "kid". Mom and Dad have every right to be furious... with themselves.

You can't tell me this kid just had a bad day in terms of respecting others. I have no proof whatsoever but I would bet the house based on the actions of Mr. Brown bitch slapping that store owner and taking his shit that Mr. Brown did what he wanted most of the time. It wouldn't surprise me if mom was proud of that. As a parent myself I would be embarrassed if my children acted this way.

Attitude, Discipline, and Respect

Through MMA training my child has learned this from day one. Despite the ability to protect oneself if absolutely necessary, respecting others and showing great character is above all the most important thing you can achieve. Besides it's easy to be a dick.

my favorite part is how the media always strives to find the most innocent school boy pic to plaster all over the news any time his name is mentioned, yeah...dont plaster the picture of him punching some guy in the store an hour prior, don't want to give people the wrong impression.....

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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