This woman's behavior fascinates me.
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26-10-2015, 08:32 AM
RE: This woman's behavior fascinates me.
(26-10-2015 07:26 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  It is also not what I said. I said that you have projected sexist interpretations into a scenario where such interpretations are unwarranted.

I'm not sure what the sexist interpretation here is, to infer she moved behind the man instinctually?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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26-10-2015, 09:02 AM
RE: This woman's behavior fascinates me.
(25-10-2015 01:01 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(25-10-2015 01:21 AM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  I am assuming everyone in that video is acting on instinct.....that none of them are really consciously deciding their actions. It is an interesting video because what we see is the primitive parts of the brain working. This is fast thinking at work.

She flees before the man, but when she realizes the man isn't with her, her instinct is to turn back and cross into harms way to be with the man. She then moves behind the man like he is going to protect her.

I also find it interesting that she instinctively grabbed her coffee.

You should watch the movie The Loneliest Planet, there's a scene in which a guy pulls a gun out on a man and his fiancee, and the man hides behind his finance, and then realizing it get's in front of her. His fiancé ends up cheating on him with the tour guide as a result.

I'm sure there is something primordial about it, that's not so easily shakeable.

I found a clip:




In a work of fiction, the author can make the characters do whatever serves the plot. How is a scene from a movie evidence of anything?
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26-10-2015, 10:12 AM
RE: This woman's behavior fascinates me.
(26-10-2015 09:02 AM)julep Wrote:  In a work of fiction, the author can make the characters do whatever serves the plot. How is a scene from a movie evidence of anything?

I don't know, I'm not even too sure what's in dispute here?

Are we asking if there is some biological foundation for why a woman might seek protection from men?

Anyone particularly disputing this? Are we of the opinion that these features as primarily the result of external influences, like social structures, and environmental factors?

Or some combination of both?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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26-10-2015, 10:37 AM
RE: This woman's behavior fascinates me.
(26-10-2015 10:12 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(26-10-2015 09:02 AM)julep Wrote:  In a work of fiction, the author can make the characters do whatever serves the plot. How is a scene from a movie evidence of anything?

I don't know, I'm not even too sure what's in dispute here?

Are we asking if there is some biological foundation for why a woman might seek protection from men?

Anyone particularly disputing this? Are we of the opinion that these features as primarily the result of external influences, like social structures, and environmental factors?

Or some combination of both?

Blowjob claims to be drawing some kind of sex-role conclusion from the video posted. Other people (including me) are disputing his interpretation and conclusions. Blowjob's opinion seems to be that the woman on the film is so incapable that she walks into the path of the bus because she's following her instinct to seek shelter behind the man. He is also making the sexist insinuation that women especially are creatures of instinct, i.e., not as good at thinking as menfolk.

As we're mammals, certainly biology is part of our reaction to threats and stress. I've certainly reacted to a dangerous situation affecting me and my child by protecting the child first without consciously weighing the situation. I never have cowered behind a man. First, I never felt the need, and also, in my experiences most of the serious threats to my safety have come from men, unfortunately. Experience, biology, personality, and other factors are all at play in crisis situations too.

However, when discussing a real-life circumstance, referencing a scene from a fiction movie to support a position is problematic IMO.
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26-10-2015, 11:13 AM
RE: This woman's behavior fascinates me.
(26-10-2015 10:37 AM)julep Wrote:  However, when discussing a real-life circumstance, referencing a scene from a fiction movie to support a position is problematic IMO.

The clip showcases our expectations of gender roles, and paints a situation in which a reversal of those expectations occur. Watching the movie with my wife, we seem to at least to have a similar reaction to it, that there's something inappropriate about the man's actions, when he hides behind his wife, but not necessarily if it was the other way around.

And my assumption is that our reactions are not entirely constructed by our environments, and have some evolutionary underpinnings, just like we would say of a mother's desire and expectations to protect and take care of her children.

I can't particular answer for any of Haywood inferences from the earlier clip, because I don't think they're all that clear to me, from his own words.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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26-10-2015, 11:56 AM (This post was last modified: 26-10-2015 12:02 PM by epronovost.)
RE: This woman's behavior fascinates me.
(26-10-2015 11:13 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(26-10-2015 10:37 AM)julep Wrote:  However, when discussing a real-life circumstance, referencing a scene from a fiction movie to support a position is problematic IMO.

The clip showcases our expectations of gender roles, and paints a situation in which a reversal of those expectations occur. Watching the movie with my wife, we seem to at least to have a similar reaction to it, that there's something inappropriate about the man's actions, when he hides behind his wife, but not necessarily if it was the other way around.

And my assumption is that our reactions are not entirely constructed by our environments, and have some evolutionary underpinnings, just like we would say of a mother's desire and expectations to protect and take care of her children.

I can't particular answer for any of Haywood inferences from the earlier clip, because I don't think they're all that clear to me, from his own words.

Well, if i may intercede, I would like to mention that there has been studies conducted on humans and their reaction to danger. It was found out that our instinct in front of danger is to freeze, avoid eye contact either by shrinking our gaze or downright closing our eyes and screaming. Moving away, dodging, evading, parrying, etc. are not instinctive actions they are learned ones. With practice and repetition they become instinctive like, but remain consciously controlled. You make the choice to run and where and you make the choice to fight. Humans have very poor instinct because we have this weird tendency, unlike most wild animals, to think all the time. This habit of thinking, making predictions, analysing situations, self correcting/improving requires our instictive urges to be lowered else they would get in the way of our thinking and vice-versa. On the instinctive level, there is very little if not no difference between men and women. Thus, we can't honestly say that women have the «instinct» to hide behind men or other figures of power. They were thought, mostly in a vicarious manner, to behave in such a fashion. There is also a point to be made about what is instinctive behavior, one that is hardwire in our genes like sexual arousal, compared to a deeply ingrained social construct like noding up and down when saying yes or smilling when meeting someone new. These things feel so natural one might think they are instinctive if there were not people who gestured yes in a different fahion or that that smilling when meeting someone new is very rude.

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26-10-2015, 12:48 PM
RE: This woman's behavior fascinates me.
(26-10-2015 10:37 AM)julep Wrote:  Blowjob claims to be drawing some kind of sex-role conclusion from the video posted. Other people (including me) are disputing his interpretation and conclusions. Blowjob's opinion seems to be that the woman on the film is so incapable that she walks into the path of the bus because she's following her instinct to seek shelter behind the man. He is also making the sexist insinuation that women especially are creatures of instinct, i.e., not as good at thinking as menfolk.

As we're mammals, certainly biology is part of our reaction to threats and stress. I've certainly reacted to a dangerous situation affecting me and my child by protecting the child first without consciously weighing the situation. I never have cowered behind a man. First, I never felt the need, and also, in my experiences most of the serious threats to my safety have come from men, unfortunately. Experience, biology, personality, and other factors are all at play in crisis situations too.

However, when discussing a real-life circumstance, referencing a scene from a fiction movie to support a position is problematic IMO.

Julep's post is interesting because it shows another unconscious instinctual behavior. That unconscious instinctual behavior being to demonize those who have opinions different than your own. Notice how Julep starts his post with derisive name calling and then goes on to just straw man. For instance, I never once claimed that women are especially creatures of instinct or that woman's thinking is not as good as a mans. In fact I said that I thought the woman was being more rational by moving perpendicular to the threat.

I am not even being critical of women or men. These two examples, I believe, were acting on instincts. They were thinking fast which happens in the primitive parts of the brain. This isn't stuff we have a whole lot of control over so why would I be critical of it? I find it interesting that the man is primarily interested in retreating away from the threat while the woman has a strong interest in being with the man. An impossible experiment I would like to do is replace the man with another woman and see if they act the same. I suspect if that experiment was done both women would have moved together from the get go.

I am being critical of people interpreting the situation under the assumption that a typical man and typical woman would have the same instincts. I know no reason to believe this to be true.
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26-10-2015, 12:58 PM
RE: This woman's behavior fascinates me.
Longer version of the video on youtube. You can view in full screen and slow it down.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qK9EWZleICg

Watch it in slow-mo at full screen. Who do you think alerts the employees behind the counter to the threat? The man or the woman?
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26-10-2015, 01:04 PM
RE: This woman's behavior fascinates me.
@Heywood Jahblome

According to what I have read on the subject, you would be right to think that its incorrect to assume that men and women have the same reaction to danger. Yet, you are wrong on the subject much like we all think that the column of the the Parthenon are straight while they are in fact crooked by design. It's an illusion. Men and women have the same instinctive reactions. It's in their conscious reactions that they differ. You are confusing instinct with deeply ingrained learned reactions and adding a tiny bit of sexism to it due to your own cultural bias. It's a common misconception and error because it seems so counter intuitive.

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26-10-2015, 01:10 PM
RE: This woman's behavior fascinates me.
(26-10-2015 01:04 PM)epronovost Wrote:  @Heywood Jahblome

According to what I have read on the subject.....

Read this article

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/8380429.stm
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