Thong's made by prison labor. Capitalism gets sexy.
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21-09-2013, 09:17 PM
RE: Thong's made by prison labor. Capitalism gets sexy.
Prisoners should contribute to society through work. The prisoners don't get paid much because it costs so much to feed, house, and secure the prisoners. If all their basic needs are paid for by the state, then what need do they have for a 'fair' wage? It's not as if the real cost of the labor is only $1 if that's what the prisoner gets paid. You'd have to add the $40k-$50k per year it costs to keep a felon locked up.

Those who are unemployed for a long time have a hard time getting back into full time employment. If someone spends years in prison without doing any gainful work, it will be that much harder for them to get back into a work routine when they get out.

I'd like to see more prison work programs. This would be good for both society and the prisoners.
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22-09-2013, 01:27 AM
RE: Thong's made by prison labor. Capitalism gets sexy.
(21-09-2013 08:34 PM)Abdul Alhazred Wrote:  Basically, slave labor.

Not exactly a "free market" is it?

Not really. Prisoners usually have tasks to do anyway (from what I've gathered from watching prison shows on CI), so I imagine it's like "you wanna fold laundry or make thongs?".

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22-09-2013, 04:41 AM
RE: Thong's made by prison labor. Capitalism gets sexy.
(21-09-2013 07:27 AM)Chas Wrote:  ...
I would dearly like to hear your alternative to incarceration of violent criminals. Consider

Deportation to Australia.

Obvious.

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22-09-2013, 07:53 AM
RE: Thong's made by prison labor. Capitalism gets sexy.
Instead of employing full time workers... out of the kindness of their hearts (and not their pockets) they give the work to prisoners, to help rehabilitate them and give them vital "skills", to which it is questionable as to wether they will gain a "qualification" at the end of it for doing something (hand stitching and maybe using sewing/embroidery/lockstitch machinery) that could actually be learned in about 2-3 weeks.

That's really going to set the gang banger/drug dealer/white collar criminal on the straight and narrow Dodgy

Its not forced labor, more like two choices.....

1: Sit in your holding block all day.
2: Have a change of scene and get paid pittance.

I wonder at how many hours a day/days a week prisoners do these types of task? When prison should actually be focused on rehabilitation.

In fact can anybody state how prisoners doing this can actually benefit them?

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22-09-2013, 09:17 AM
RE: Thong's made by prison labor. Capitalism gets sexy.
(22-09-2013 07:53 AM)bemore Wrote:  In fact can anybody state how prisoners doing this can actually benefit them?

-It gives them a daily routine of doing gainful work, which hopefully can stay with them when they do get out of prison. The long term unemployed people out of prison lose what are best described as basic work ethic skills. Prisoner who do not have the opportunity to work are at that much more of a disadvantage when they get back to civilian life.

-As you say, it offers the prisoner a choice between getting paid a pittance and sitting in their holding cell doing nothing. But beyond that, working provides additional structure to the prisoner's life, and I would think would have the benefit of improved mental health and well-being. Sitting in a cell doing nothing would bore me to death.

-Having prisoners work reinforces the social value of work as a positive part of ones life. I think work programs are as beneficial to prisoners as GED and literacy programs run within prisons.

-The prisoner may get paid a pittance, but they have no living expenses while they are incarcerated. When the prisoner gets out of jail, they will be able to save up a few dollars to give them a bit of a financial cushion to help them adjust to civilian life again.
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22-09-2013, 09:45 AM (This post was last modified: 22-09-2013 09:53 AM by ridethespiral.)
RE: Thong's made by prison labor. Capitalism gets sexy.
Bear with me a second...

I'm not against prison labor, I don't want to pay to put some rapist up in a hotel for 20 years (probably more like 3, somehow those guys get out before your run of the mill drug dleare) but I am against the current system for a number of reasons:

1) No private entity (prison) should be profiting on the perpetuation of crime and violence, it's an inherent conflict of interest.
2) There is no focus on rehabilitation, private prisons want repeat customers.
3) Overcrowding and unsafe conditions are unacceptable (see LA) people enter the system for slinging some dope and wind up in a repurposed gym with 100 other guys most of whom are gang members, they join gangs and commit crimes on the inside to stay alive and they hit with longer sentences in the process, they are hardened in the process and if/when they get out they are worse then when then got in. Prison in it's current form is crime school.
4) Only violent individuals (rapists, murderers, real dangers to the people around them) should be incarcerated, rehab is a lot cheaper and move effective for the crack heads. Regulation and legalization is a smarter, cheaper way to fight 'the dope snake.'
5) Prisoners should be able to vote upon release (they are supposed have been made into citizens again).

As far as labor goes many of America's earliest prisons (traditional penitentiaries) taught inmates to a trade and most came in for horse theft and left as a cobblers or tailors or the like. Prisoners should be offered the ability to work, to learn and to better themselves and while a large chunk of their earnings should go to incarceration costs some cash (proportional to effort and cooperation) should be set aside to help them get started on the outside. People with good jobs don't wind up in prison.

Of course we have conglomerated even the most basic services and created a world where there is no place for these people. It's highly skilled/college level labor or part-time/poverty line/minimum wage bullshit and until we fix the skills gap we will continue to have problems.

Every prisoner in the system represents a failure on the part of our larger society, there is nothing more disturbing about this country than it's incarceration rate.

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22-09-2013, 10:20 AM
RE: Thong's made by prison labor. Capitalism gets sexy.
(22-09-2013 09:45 AM)ridethespiral Wrote:  1) No private entity (prison) should be profiting on the perpetuation of crime and violence, it's an inherent conflict of interest.

I can agree mostly with this. The vast majority of prisons in the US are run by some level of government. To the extent that government contracts provide for privately managed prisons to get management fees and to make a profit off those fees, the private companies should be entitled to manage prisoners in the work programs. I think the solution would be to make the income generated from the prison labor go to the government paying for the cost to incarcerate the prisoners (less a reasonable administrative fee to manage these programs).

Quote:2) There is no focus on rehabilitation, private prisons want repeat customers.

Evidence, please? Are there any stats you are aware of that compare recidivism from state run versus government run prisons? My cursory google search pulled up a study showing no difference:
https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/publications/a...?ID=205465

I think recidivism rates could be a potential profit motivator to find innovative ways to reduce it--tie compensation to recidivism rates, and your concern mostly goes away. Profit motive for private companies running prisons isn't necessarily a bad thing here if properly set up to obtain the socially preferable outcome.

Quote:3) Overcrowding and unsafe conditions are unacceptable (see LA) people enter the system for slinging some dope and wind up in a repurposed gym with 100 other guys most of whom are gang members, they join gangs and commit crimes on the inside to stay alive and they hit with longer sentences in the process, they are hardened in the process and if/when they get out they are worse then when then got in. Prison in it's current form is crime school.

The war on drugs is pointless. Decriminalize and crime rates will fall--not just the 'crime' of using a drug, but the illegal activity around the illicit drug trade.

Quote:4) Only violent individuals (rapists, murderers, real dangers to the people around them) should be incarcerated, rehab is a lot cheaper and move effective for the crack heads. Regulation and legalization is a smarter, cheaper way to fight 'the dope snake.'
I disagree with this. Theft, fraud, and other white-collar crimes need prison as well to deter these activities.

Quote:5) Prisoners should be able to vote upon release (they are supposed have been made into citizens again).

I can sign onto this one. If rehabilitation is to mean anything, it has to mean that former prisoners should be able to integrate into society. Voting is a civic duty, and taking that away permanently essentially tells the ex-con that they actually are not part of society. Their status as an ex-con will be alienating enough.
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22-09-2013, 08:58 PM
RE: Thong's made by prison labor. Capitalism gets sexy.
Wait, prisoners in America lose voting rights for life no matter if they are in prison or not?
Gezz, wtf... I bet that was a Republican thing.
Here prisoners cans till vote, even if they're in prison.

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22-09-2013, 09:03 PM
RE: Thong's made by prison labor. Capitalism gets sexy.
(22-09-2013 08:58 PM)earmuffs Wrote:  Wait, prisoners in America lose voting rights for life no matter if they are in prison or not?
Gezz, wtf... I bet that was a Republican thing.
Here prisoners cans till vote, even if they're in prison.

It varies state by state:
http://felonvoting.procon.org/view.resou...urceID=286
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22-09-2013, 09:19 PM
RE: Thong's made by prison labor. Capitalism gets sexy.
Here's an idea...don't do shit that will get you thrown into prison if you are caught at it.

And prisons do hold the more serious offenders. People convicted of lesser crimes are held for shorter terms in county detention centers. We aren't sending petty criminals to prison unless they are habitual offenders.

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