Thor got me in trouble
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06-06-2011, 10:45 AM
Thor got me in trouble
While my in-laws were in after my wife delivered we were having dinner, I obviously do not pray and the first three nights dinner went off without a hitch without anyone doing so. I guess it was all too much to take going four nights only communicating via mental telepathy to God and my father-in-law had to say a prayer before dinner on the fourth night, focusing primarily on keeping people safe. I kinda pissed me off because it's my house and I did not think he had a right to do that. I stewed over it without saying a word until the subject of seeing the movie "Thor" came up. There was some debate as to who exactly Thor was. I found ol' Thor on Wikipedia and informed them he was a God primarily responsible for protection. I then got a real worried look on my face and when was asked what was wrong worried out loud that we "just prayed to the wrong God". My wife got pissed at me because she thought me, not her dad was being disrespectful. She was all postpartumed up so I ended up apologizing to her, which kind of makes me mad too as I do not really think I did anything wrong.
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06-06-2011, 10:57 AM
RE: Thor got me in trouble
Those Christians deserve to be mocked from time to time. They take themselves way to serious.

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06-06-2011, 11:41 AM
 
RE: Thor got me in trouble
(06-06-2011 10:45 AM)J-Hova Wrote:  While my in-laws were in after my wife delivered we were having dinner, I obviously do not pray and the first three nights dinner went off without a hitch without anyone doing so....(Sic)... She was all post partumed up so I ended up apologizing to her, which kind of makes me mad too as I do not really think I did anything wrong.

You've done everything wrong.

You are an atheist that married a religious woman, whom you thought enough of to promise the rest of your life to without once thinking you'd have to live with her in-laws too. Parents, who raised her as they believe all the days of her life, before she ever knew you existed.

And now you've brought a kid into the middle of this chaos. That, I promise you, will never get better, only worse. Because not even your wife has your back.
Your wife doesn't respect your atheism, which is why she sided with her parents who don't respect you or the house you share with her.

Decent Christians respect people who do not follow their beliefs. Decent Christians don't need to pray aloud in order to speak and give thanks for a meal, to their god.
Indecent Christians who hold no respect for their host, whom they don't respect because he's an atheist, pray aloud in his house.

Had it been me, when her father finished his spitting in my face with, "Amen", I'd have stood and said you can leave now. And I'd have put my hand on the back of his chair and moved it back a tad so as to let him feel I was serious.
I would throw both him and his wife out of my home. And if my wife had an issue with that, she could leave too.

It's your house. It's your rules. When you chose to marry a woman whom you would always be in conflict with because her parents are alive and she's a product of their raising, you cant now whine and say it's all so unfair.
And when you choose to be censured in your own house, that you work to keep, because you're outnumbered by 3 people who hold no respect for that or you, and you end up apologizing because you imagine it's going to keep the peace between you and the woman who's already proven she's not on your side, you're compromising your integrity. Which is exactly what indecent Christians live for. It shows them you're insecure and wrong, being an atheist. And their faith is giving them the power to show you that.

So you, in your own house that you work to keep, are the one following their rules. You're the one biting your tongue. You're the one made to feel bad, because you let yourself compromise and then feel bad for doing that.

And now you've got a kid, in the midst of that chaos. Tell me, when little treasure is old enough to understand influence, whom do you think she's going to be guided by? 1 Daddy atheist? Or two indecent Christian grandparents and a mom who's on their side?

You think it blows now? You ain't seen nothing yet.

If you can't stand for your right to respect in your own home, when you're faced by three people who don't respect you in your own home, what are you going to do with the rest of your life as a couple with a kid?

As long as you take it, indecent Christians will push it.
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06-06-2011, 01:40 PM
RE: Thor got me in trouble
(06-06-2011 11:41 AM)GassyKitten Wrote:  
(06-06-2011 10:45 AM)J-Hova Wrote:  While my in-laws were in after my wife delivered we were having dinner, I obviously do not pray and the first three nights dinner went off without a hitch without anyone doing so....(Sic)... She was all post partumed up so I ended up apologizing to her, which kind of makes me mad too as I do not really think I did anything wrong.

You've done everything wrong.

You are an atheist that married a religious woman, whom you thought enough of to promise the rest of your life to without once thinking you'd have to live with her in-laws too. Parents, who raised her as they believe all the days of her life, before she ever knew you existed.

And now you've brought a kid into the middle of this chaos. That, I promise you, will never get better, only worse. Because not even your wife has your back.
Your wife doesn't respect your atheism, which is why she sided with her parents who don't respect you or the house you share with her.

Decent Christians respect people who do not follow their beliefs. Decent Christians don't need to pray aloud in order to speak and give thanks for a meal, to their god.
Indecent Christians who hold no respect for their host, whom they don't respect because he's an atheist, pray aloud in his house.

Had it been me, when her father finished his spitting in my face with, "Amen", I'd have stood and said you can leave now. And I'd have put my hand on the back of his chair and moved it back a tad so as to let him feel I was serious.
I would throw both him and his wife out of my home. And if my wife had an issue with that, she could leave too.

It's your house. It's your rules. When you chose to marry a woman whom you would always be in conflict with because her parents are alive and she's a product of their raising, you cant now whine and say it's all so unfair.
And when you choose to be censured in your own house, that you work to keep, because you're outnumbered by 3 people who hold no respect for that or you, and you end up apologizing because you imagine it's going to keep the peace between you and the woman who's already proven she's not on your side, you're compromising your integrity. Which is exactly what indecent Christians live for. It shows them you're insecure and wrong, being an atheist. And their faith is giving them the power to show you that.

So you, in your own house that you work to keep, are the one following their rules. You're the one biting your tongue. You're the one made to feel bad, because you let yourself compromise and then feel bad for doing that.

And now you've got a kid, in the midst of that chaos. Tell me, when little treasure is old enough to understand influence, whom do you think she's going to be guided by? 1 Daddy atheist? Or two indecent Christian grandparents and a mom who's on their side?

You think it blows now? You ain't seen nothing yet.

If you can't stand for your right to respect in your own home, when you're faced by three people who don't respect you in your own home, what are you going to do with the rest of your life as a couple with a kid?

As long as you take it, indecent Christians will push it.

Wow. Pretty harsh and judgmental there.

J-Hova - I have a different view. I think you didn't do anything wrong. Having a new baby is stressful, dealing with family is stressful, dealing with in-laws is even more stressful. We all manage our lives the very best way we can. Personally, I choose my family battles very carefully and I bite my lip a lot when dealing with my wife's family. The issues there are not religion based (neither my wife nor I come from a religious upbringing so at least we don't have that issue), but there are always issues with family and stresses and things you want to say and hold back on saying or things you don't hold back on and wish later that you had.

Having been doing this dance for just under 14 years now, and the advanced dance since my eldest was born a little over 10 years ago, all I can offer is that you need to manage your relationships in the way that you see most fit. If you don't feel like picking a fight with your father-in-law over what is really a small issue because you don't want to piss your wife off, then don't pick it. From what you're describing, it sounds like your in-laws had to travel to get to you. That means it is a temporary situation. If you don't feel strongly enough about the issue to make it an uncomfortable situation, then don't bother. If you do, then you need to understand the potential consequences and decide if they are worth it.

Finally, the simple fact is that no one will have more influence on your children than you and your wife. Someone saying grace at dinner is not going to push them one way or the other on religion. You raise your kids, not your parents, not your wife's parents. I wouldn't worry about their influence at this point.

My 2 cents at least.

Shackle their minds when they're bent on the cross
When ignorance reigns, life is lost
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06-06-2011, 07:17 PM
RE: Thor got me in trouble
You made the one mistake every man makes which was to voice your opinion too loudly in opposition of the in-laws opinion. Doesn't matter that it's your house. Really it doesn't. So get over it. Just humor them while they visit (which doesn't mean participating in prayer or anything, just not calling negative attention to it) Then when they leave breath a sigh of relief. I mean Atheist or Christian or Morman, it doesn't matter when it comes to in-laws, you're going to want them to go away no matter what.

"I think of myself as an intelligent, sensitive human being with the soul of a clown which always forces me to blow it at the most important moments." -Jim Morrison
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06-06-2011, 09:36 PM (This post was last modified: 06-06-2011 09:40 PM by TheAtheist.)
RE: Thor got me in trouble
Thor ith always getting me into throuble.
But that ith another Thory
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07-06-2011, 04:20 AM
RE: Thor got me in trouble
What you should do is call her father and have a nice, calm conversation with him, alone, man-to-man. Your house, your rules. If he wants to pray before dinner, it's ok, even in your house, but it's not ok to expect of you to pray with him. And what movies you watch is your and your choice alone. He has no right to even make a funny comment about that. So it's up to you to present that kind of view to him in a nice, civilized and calm manner. That's what I would do...

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07-06-2011, 10:13 AM
RE: Thor got me in trouble
You know, there is nothing wrong with who you married or the fact your in-laws are uber religious or that you brought a child into this family. It is so harsh for someone to say this is a mistake or it won't work- I 100 percent disagree and my marriage and children are a fine example of a positive situation from this exact example.

How we deal with things in life, like this disagreement between your in-laws, and ultimately your wife, are good. It is good for your new child (congrats, BTW!) to see how people work things out. When to laugh something off, when to be cheeky back and when to stick up for yourself respectfully. These are social skills, and power to you for figuring out how to work out differences. I HAVE seen it work, and it's worked for me before too. Your children will learn from you for when (inevitably) they will run into these situations in their own lives. And your wife and yourself will learn boundaries , as in any relationship, as you go on. Who knows, maybe you will both learn something as you go on too. Maybe she or her parents will become more critical thinking. Even one step more is a good thing, right?

I share your frustration though- but word from the wise, don't mess with post-partum stress. Though your feelings and opinions are valid, not a good time, ha ha. Wait until the next (few) visits for controversy. Wink
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07-06-2011, 11:18 AM
 
RE: Thor got me in trouble
(07-06-2011 10:13 AM)LadyJane Wrote:  You know, there is nothing wrong with who you married or the fact your in-laws are uber religious or that you brought a child into this family. It is so harsh for someone to say this is a mistake or it won't work ...


That someone was me. If you're going to address my remarks, use my name. Smile

And I never said their relationship wouldn't work. So when you do address what I say, don't put words in my mouth.

Someone puts their private laundry onto a public forum and other members are surprised when someone doesn't pander and kiss ass and make nice, that it's all just lovely and don't worry it'll get better. If one doesn't want to garner a personal opinion from perfect strangers, don't post a personal experience on a internet forum.

What's harsh, is In-Laws who know the man their daughter married is an atheist and doesn't appreciate, and I'm sure has already had a talk with her family, religious rites and rituals in his home. If he's atheist it's intelligence that understands that means non-religious.
For a guest in someone's home to blatantly disrespect their host, knowing full well respect works both ways, demonstrates there is no respect for the son-in-law. That religious ritual has every right to display itself contrary to what good manners would dictate, because these particular Christians in question, think more of their right to put their faith in his face, than they do of respecting their atheist son-in-law's right to be free of nonsense in his own home.
And that his wife, their daughter, doesn't stand with him in insisting her own parents respect her own husband, whom she chose to marry and have a family with, demonstrates in something this minor, where her priorities are.

And it's patent ignorance to imagine a child brought into this circumstance, isn't going to be affected by the chaos. An atheist father, a theist mother who will side with her parents and her faith before her husband, and Christian grandparents who visit and when they do, demonstrate their desire to bring to the family home a Christian atmosphere, makes for a conflict already. The husband, baby's father, apologizing for what? Being atheist and not appreciating being disrespected in his family home?
And unless those who think a child isn't going to be affected by this yet, have no extended family or children of their own, they don't realize that unless the child in this equation will never ever visit their religious grandparents, the child is still going to be affected by the divergent philosophies that occur under the roof of the family home. When mom and dad are together and when religious in-laws visit.

Disrespecting a man in his own home, by doing that which he requests be avoided because he does not respect those rituals, is an insult. It's just damn bad manners. No one here, who makes excuses for this blatant mockery of a son-in-laws atheism would think twice about speaking up if an invited guest into their home dropped their pants and took a piss on the carpet.
Not one of us would excuse that twisted behavior with; well, it's part of their culture. Oh, maybe if we had a nice gentle talk with them about defecating on the floor of someone's home... Well, that's not going to affect a child yet...

But let it be prayer, religious ritual, Baptism, and there's always an excuse to let the offender party be tolerated or excused.
That's probably because it's an attitude arrived at when it's someone elses hurdle. When it get's personal, if it actually happened to those who otherwise advise pandering to the offender, because it's not actually happening to them, somehow I think it would be a whole different ball of wax.

Then again, when someone dares not show respect to someone who invites them into their home, and that host tolerates the disrespect so as not to step on any toes and even apologizes for being upset by disrespectful behavior, the line is drawn. There are people in this world that, if you let them piss on your floor, will take it to mean you respect more their right to deem your home worthy of being used as a toilet for fear of offending the ignorance that doesn't know that's not acceptable. As opposed to standing up and educating their blatant ignorance and thereby imparting to them the first simple fact; that being a guest in someone's home is a privilege, not a right.


(06-06-2011 09:36 PM)TheAtheist Wrote:  Thor ith always getting me into throuble.
But that ith another Thory
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07-06-2011, 01:52 PM
RE: Thor got me in trouble
I'm kind of on the fence with this one. I have family (mostly in-laws) that are religous. They know I am an atheist, and so obviously I don't pray. My solution was to respect the fact that they do, while at the same time, demanding that they respect the fact that I don't. So when I have them for dinner, I nip the situation in the bud, by asking everyone to remain silent for a moment, so that anyone who wants to say a silent prayer can do so. I emphasize silent slightly, so they know that it's unacceptable to say a prayer out loud for all of us, but gently enough so that they see it is out of respect for their beliefs. There are atheists who feel that religous beliefs don't deserve any respect, I'm just not one of them.
So, my advice is this; let it slide. You are no worse off now than you were before this all happened. BUT, in the future, communicate with your wife that you don't feel that it's appropriate for her parents to say grace in your home, and then explain to her that just as you would respect their home, you expect them to respect yours. Making a compromise like the one above isn't compromising your beliefs, it's respecting others, while maintaining your own self respect.
Remember: pick your battles. Is it worth it to fight this one out, or is it better to move forward with a better understanding of how you feel with your family?

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