Those supossed 500 witnesses
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
17-04-2015, 01:27 PM
RE: Those supossed 500 witnesses
500 people saw one of my ancestors invent the wheel.
According to them, anyone anywhere that is manufacturing, or using anything wheel-like owes me royalties for the use of my families invention.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 7 users Like pablo's post
17-04-2015, 02:00 PM
RE: Those supossed 500 witnesses
(17-04-2015 09:16 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  So I'm having a discussion with someone who is adamant that the 500 witnesses are proof of Jesus' resurrection. My understanding is that Paul sort of interviewed, if you could call it that, the 500 people many years after the supposed zombie day event.

Can anyone give me some other tips on this.

Thanks, gang.

You have Vegas theaters larger than 500 people fill to see Siegfried and Roy put a women in a box and magically she turns into a tiger. I can't tell you how that trick was done, but it was a trick. Penn and Teller don't literally saw that woman in half.

In antiquity it doesn't even have to be a literal trick to convince people, it can be merely writing devices to appeal to emotions. Ever see a commercial on TV that says "But wait, act now and we will double your order for free". It is a appeal to your vanity or narcissism or fear. In reality you don't get anything for free.

George Washington was a provable figure, but no sane person should claim he could fart a full sized Lamborghini out of his ass. We can see Superman flying around real cities in movies but humans don't fly like that in reality.

The "Empty Tomb" works in the same psychological sense that claims of Big Foot and Horoscopes. If you want to believe it badly enough you will.

Back then because humans both in polytheism and monotheism had no clue as to the scientific nature of reality, wrote explanations down either because of a false perception, or flat out lying because they wanted attention. But everyone back then was competing for the candyland afterlife.

Poetry by Brian37(poems by an atheist) Also on Facebook as BrianJames Rational Poet and Twitter Brianrrs37
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-04-2015, 02:46 PM
RE: Those supossed 500 witnesses
(17-04-2015 02:00 PM)Brian37 Wrote:  
(17-04-2015 09:16 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  So I'm having a discussion with someone who is adamant that the 500 witnesses are proof of Jesus' resurrection. My understanding is that Paul sort of interviewed, if you could call it that, the 500 people many years after the supposed zombie day event.

Can anyone give me some other tips on this.

Thanks, gang.

You have Vegas theaters larger than 500 people fill to see Siegfried and Roy put a women in a box and magically she turns into a tiger. I can't tell you how that trick was done, but it was a trick. Penn and Teller don't literally saw that woman in half.

In antiquity it doesn't even have to be a literal trick to convince people, it can be merely writing devices to appeal to emotions. Ever see a commercial on TV that says "But wait, act now and we will double your order for free". It is a appeal to your vanity or narcissism or fear. In reality you don't get anything for free.

George Washington was a provable figure, but no sane person should claim he could fart a full sized Lamborghini out of his ass. We can see Superman flying around real cities in movies but humans don't fly like that in reality.

The "Empty Tomb" works in the same psychological sense that claims of Big Foot and Horoscopes. If you want to believe it badly enough you will.

Back then because humans both in polytheism and monotheism had no clue as to the scientific nature of reality, wrote explanations down either because of a false perception, or flat out lying because they wanted attention. But everyone back then was competing for the candyland afterlife.

This guy I'm talking to is like so many other theists, he has no idea what constitutes evidence and won't or can't think outside the little black book. He goes on to quote shit from the Bible as if it's true and doesn't understand that it's meaningless to me because it isn't evidence of anything and it's never been proven to be true. He might as well be quoting from Peter Pan as evidence for Never-Never Land. But does he get that? Nope. He sees Peter Pan as a children's book and the Bible as true. Dodgy

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-04-2015, 06:04 PM
RE: Those supossed 500 witnesses
(17-04-2015 01:27 PM)pablo Wrote:  500 people saw one of my ancestors invent the wheel.
According to them, anyone anywhere that is manufacturing, or using anything wheel-like owes me royalties for the use of my families invention.

Don’t waste your money hiring a lawyer, all you’ll do is go round and round in a court of law with that one. Smile

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Full Circle's post
17-04-2015, 06:07 PM
RE: Those supossed 500 witnesses
(17-04-2015 09:16 AM)dancefortwo Wrote:  So I'm having a discussion with someone who is adamant that the 500 witnesses are proof of Jesus' resurrection. My understanding is that Paul sort of interviewed, if you could call it that, the 500 people many years after the supposed zombie day event.

Can anyone give me some other tips on this.

Thanks, gang.

ask him/her for the names and statements....oh yeah Rolleyes

Ask him if he believes in bigfoot....

Thousands of people, including christians, have sworn to have smelled, seen, heard and even photographed bigfoot....you can go right now and interview them...so it must be true.....just has to be right? According to his logic.

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like goodwithoutgod's post
17-04-2015, 06:08 PM
RE: Those supossed 500 witnesses
(17-04-2015 06:04 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(17-04-2015 01:27 PM)pablo Wrote:  500 people saw one of my ancestors invent the wheel.
According to them, anyone anywhere that is manufacturing, or using anything wheel-like owes me royalties for the use of my families invention.

Don’t waste your money hiring a lawyer, all you’ll do is go round and round in a court of law with that one. Smile

He might get a little traction with that argument. Who knows what will happen when the rubber meets the road. After all, what goes around, comes around.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes unfogged's post
17-04-2015, 06:18 PM
RE: Those supossed 500 witnesses
sigh, let's take a peek at his lie.

For I handed on to you as of first importance what I in turn had received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures, and that he was buried, and that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures, and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers and sisters at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have died. Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles. Last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared also to me. – 1 Corinthians 15:3-8

Now first lets look at context clues...

The very first thing that Paul reveals is that he is simply relaying hearsay information, a rumor.

“For I handed on to you as of first importance what I in turn had received: that…”

“For I handed on to you….what I in turn had received: that…”

This is known as the Tradition Summary Formula. People passing along stories still use it in various forms today. One example would be “guess what I heard: that…”.

Does Paul provide testimony as to where he got his information? No, only that he had heard the rumor. This is not in any way legitimate testimony that would stand up to scrutiny. This is not the testimony of 500 witnesses. There is no corroborative testimony by anyone that Paul names. This is a rumor spread by one man.

Paul’s purpose for writing that was not to prove that Jesus had risen from the dead, but to prove that he was legitimate. In attempting to reinforce his followers’ faith, he inadvertently predicted the ultimate demise of Pauline Christianity.

interestingly he says...

If there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not been raised; and if Christ has not been raised, then our proclamation has been in vain and your faith has been in vain. We are even found to be misrepresenting God, because we testified of God that he raised Christ—whom he did not raise if it is true that the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised. If Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins. Then those also who have died in Christ have perished. If for this life only we have hoped in Christ, we are of all people most to be pitied. – 1 Corinthians 15:13-19

Well said Paul, I couldn't have put it any better Flex

yeeeeeeeah as I have said many times, the three F's of christianity are easily dismantled...Fiction, fantasy and forgery.

Smartass

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like goodwithoutgod's post
17-04-2015, 06:18 PM
RE: Those supossed 500 witnesses
(17-04-2015 06:08 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(17-04-2015 06:04 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Don’t waste your money hiring a lawyer, all you’ll do is go round and round in a court of law with that one. Smile

He might get a little traction with that argument. Who knows what will happen when the rubber meets the road. After all, what goes around, comes around.

My head is spinning with all of this information.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
17-04-2015, 07:40 PM
RE: Those supossed 500 witnesses
The Weirdest Examples of Mass Hysteria

Quote:3. The Monkey Man of New Delhi

Ever hear the one about the Monkey Man of New Delhi? About four feet tall, sporting a metal cap and steel claws, he terrorized many a New Delhi night in 2001. Victims reported being savagely scratched and bitten by the odd ape. What's worse is what happened to people scared of the ape: an unlucky short man was beaten by a mod who suspected him of being the ape, a pregnant woman fell down some stairs because neighbors had shouted that the ape had been seen, and others were said to have seriously injured themselves running away from what they thought was the ape.

The punch line for the Monkey Man is the same as for the laughing girls of Kashasha and the Mad Gasser of Mattoon: it was all in their minds

------------

You might guffaw and giggle about how silly those girls behaved, or how naive the folks of Mattoon were, or how ridiculous the Monkey Man sounds, but before you do too much laughing think about what some researches are hypothesizing: that much of what we believe about the world, about its horrors and mysteries -- including witch trials of every sort, UFOs, some cases of communist conspiracies and so much more -- are nothing but signs of the tremendous power of the human mind, coupled with the drive to become one with the crowd in order to deceive itself.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like TheInquisition's post
17-04-2015, 07:55 PM (This post was last modified: 17-04-2015 08:19 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Those supossed 500 witnesses
I have much much better evidence for something else.
Tell them that IF they accept the standard of evidence that Paul presents, then they must also accept the following.
I present to you a series of events that occurred in what is now, one of the United States of America, (far closer in time to us than the "resurrection").

The Governor of the state in question became involved. A court was established. Witnesses were carefully examined and cross-examined, by the best experts of the day. Evidence was gathered. Many people confessed in public to the officials of the court. The entire proceeding was documented with thousands of sworn affidavits, court documents, interviews and related proceedings. Sufficient evidence was established by intelligent men and women of good faith, that the declarations of the witnesses were true, and that these declarations should in all reasonableness result in the established legal consequences that reasonable good adult men and women thought were perfectly legitimate.

What evidence did they have, that the assertions concerning what they said they saw, and were convinced of, were really true ?
1. Hundreds if not thousands of people were involved in concluding that what they said they saw and concluded was actually true.
2. The witnesses provided sworn testimony in court, sworn affidavits which we can look at today, and affirmed they were completely utterly convinced that what they were saying was totally completely true.
3. The witnesses came from all social strata, and every diverse background, including the most highly educated of the day.
4. These witnesses included judges, magistrates, the governor of the state, and family members of those about whom the assertions were made.
5. Many involved had much to lose if the assertions were to be found true. The consequences would impact many in very personal ways, if found to be true, thus had no conflict of interest, or reason to lie. Many could lose beloved spouses and family members and friends about whom they cared a great deal.
6. The proceedings were thorough, exhaustive investigations. They deliberately gathered evidence. They made every effort to sort out truth from fallacy. They went to every possible length to actually discern the facts.
7. There are numerous artifacts from the time, and many documents from the proceedings we can review in person today.
8. These proceedings happened, not 2000 years ago, but a mere few hundred years ago. The literacy rate was far far higher than in ancient Israel.
9. For claimed events from 2000 years ago, there are no actual original documents of any kind. None at all. Only copies from centuries later.
10. For the events in question we have sworn documented court testimony, not just word of mouth transmission.
11. A truck full of documents from the proceedings exists at the University of Virginia Library. You can go see the testimony of the eye-witnesses for yourself, today.
12. By any measure or method, the quantity and quality of the evidence for the events in question FAR FAR FAR outweighs the quality of the evidence for the events in Jerusalem 2000 years ago.
13. Anyone who claims they have good evidence to support belief in Jesus, his death, and resurrection, or any miracle thought to have happened, IF they are in any way a consistent, honest, logical and reasonably thoughtful person, they MUST also accept :

That of the 250 people accused, 19 women in Salem Massachusetts, including Sarah Goode, and Rebekah Nurse, The Witches of Salem, really were actually witches, and were justly condemned and executed for performing demon magic.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 6 users Like Bucky Ball's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: