Thoughts From The Doubting Dragon
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06-10-2013, 05:07 PM
Thoughts From The Doubting Dragon
My wife and I met at church 15 years ago. We married 11 years ago. Early on in our marriage I began to have doubts about the existence of a god. However, I was not brave enough to talk to my wife about it. Well, that’s not entirely true. I did try one time, but I don’t think I communicated very well how deep my doubts were. I was actually kind of scared to admit it. I knew it would change things dramatically for us. So I just kind of brushed it off and rolled with trying to remain a christian.

I remember through the years trying to read the bible by myself and with her. It was painful every time. We didn’t read much together and I would usually fall asleep very quickly trying on my own. I know now it was because of my doubts that it was so difficult to read and believe.

Then we started having kids. My wife is the most honest and self searching person that I know. I’m sure she could give a better account of her experience, but I will do my best. She began to have doubts of her own as she read the bible. One day she was reading to our boy while our niece was over. After she read one of the stories, our niece asked my wife, “do you believe that?” A switch went off in my wifes head. She wasn’t sure. The process began, because she knew she couldn’t teach our kids the bible if she didn’t believe it herself.

I remember my wife and I being at our weekly bible study group and she announced she was having doubts that god was there. Most of the people in the group told her she can’t figure it out with her thinking, logic and mind. That the “holy spirit” would reveal all things to her. So we prayed for just that very thing to happen right then and there in the group. I wanted so bad for it to be true myself and for god to show something to her. Of course nothing happened.

I have never seen some one so desperate in their search. Some one so open and really wanting to hear from god as my wife during this time. She cried many times to hear, feel or see anything from the god that (according to the bible) wants to reveal himself to us. I couldn’t understand how god could not do anything for someone that wanted something, anything to show he was real. My wife didn’t believe anymore.

Fast forward the story now to the point where I did my own searching and research to find I don’t believe anymore either. My wife and I have been on an amazing road that is open to truth.

The purpose of this post is to talk about a meeting my wife had yesterday with a family member. This family member is a lifelong christian that of course is very worried about our eternal souls and the souls of our children. I’m sure it is quite disturbing that we are taking the path that we are. I understand that, coming from a christian perspective.

The family member was trying to understand why my wife didn’t believe anymore, and also wanted to show my wife reasons why she does believe it. Their reasons for belief was the usual “prophecies fulfilled, personal experience, why did so many die martyrs for jesus, so many do believe it.” No actual proof for the existence of god. Just emotional plugs and no real truth.

The thing that finally upset my wife was when our family member said that god has spoken to said family member. My wife said, “so he can speak to you so clearly, but not me?” Our family member said something to the effect of, “well…maybe some aren’t as sincere about it.”

This is absolutely not true. IF ANYTHING…my wife was more sincere in trying to get a response from god, than anyone I’ve ever known. And now I have to say that we are both sincerely looking for what is really true. So far, we’ve found no truth in the bible or any god. If there is a god out there, we’re still open. I just think its a dead end.

My wife left the meeting feeling like she didn’t really get all her points across. Like she didn’t really make our family member understand why she doesn’t believe. But I told her that she knows inside herself why she can’t believe it. That’s all that matters. She doesn’t have to convince anyone else or gain any one else’s approval for her disbelief. As long as we can remain honest with ourselves. I am proud of her.

This post can be found on my blog at http://doubtingdragon.wordpress.com See more of my post. DD

Twitter: @doubtingdragon
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06-10-2013, 05:20 PM
RE: Thoughts From The Doubting Dragon
Copy and paste from your blog?

Just curious, are you here for discussion or to increase traffic to your blog? Just askin.

Consider

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06-10-2013, 05:54 PM
RE: Thoughts From The Doubting Dragon
(06-10-2013 05:20 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Copy and paste from your blog?

Just curious, are you here for discussion or to increase traffic to your blog? Just askin.

Consider

Spoken like a true skeptic. But honestly, just wanting people to get to know me as I get to know people here as well. I'm new to the skeptic world, and simply offered the community here who may be interested other things I'm involved in as friends might. I guess I never thought about increasing numbers so much as letting my fellow unbelievers into my world. Really wanting help along this new path. I have a lot of questions and look forward to learning. Apologies if I did a no-no.

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06-10-2013, 06:16 PM
RE: Thoughts From The Doubting Dragon
I'm willing to help you on your new path.

Don't buy into bullshit. If you are unable to recognize bullshit, ask for some evidence that supports the claim and then evaluate the evidence.

And don't be a prick

There.... my work is done.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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06-10-2013, 06:16 PM
RE: Thoughts From The Doubting Dragon
(06-10-2013 05:54 PM)DoubtingDragon Wrote:  
(06-10-2013 05:20 PM)Stark Raving Wrote:  Copy and paste from your blog?

Just curious, are you here for discussion or to increase traffic to your blog? Just askin.

Consider

Spoken like a true skeptic. But honestly, just wanting people to get to know me as I get to know people here as well. I'm new to the skeptic world, and simply offered the community here who may be interested other things I'm involved in as friends might. I guess I never thought about increasing numbers so much as letting my fellow unbelievers into my world. Really wanting help along this new path. I have a lot of questions and look forward to learning. Apologies if I did a no-no.

Thank you for sharing your innermost thoughts. I enjoyed reading them. Please continue posting.
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06-10-2013, 06:19 PM
RE: Thoughts From The Doubting Dragon
You're good, dude. Congrats on your new worldview! I kinda got there alongside my wife too. Well, to be honest she was never really religious, just a casual believer, so it wasn't a huge leap for her.

Anyway, welcome!

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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06-10-2013, 07:26 PM
RE: Thoughts From The Doubting Dragon
I can assure you that you and your wife are not alone in your experiences.

It's difficult to explain to a devout believer why you don't share their view... the simple reason being that to a full on believer, the existence of God has been taught to them as a fact since before they can remember. Therefore, God is as real as you are to them, they cannot grasp how it could possibly be untrue.

My personal deconversion was different. Probably because my experience of Christianity has been somewhat negative... nothing really horrible, but enough to make me glad to see the back of it. So when I began to have serious doubts, I embraced them and enjoyed the ride.

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06-10-2013, 08:20 PM
RE: Thoughts From The Doubting Dragon
Thanks for the kind words all. I look forward to the ride.

Twitter: @doubtingdragon
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06-10-2013, 08:49 PM
RE: Thoughts From The Doubting Dragon
Now for my first question. I was wondering what folks here make of these passages:
1. Matthew 16:28 "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the son of man coming in his kingdom."
2. Mark 9:1 And he said to them, "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power."
3. Luke 9:27 "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of god."

When I read these passages, it seems pretty straight forward. There doesn't appear to be anything deeper to look at as far as interpretation. But that's just me at first glance. It seems to me that Jesus is expecting his return or at least the revealing of the Kingdom in the lifetime of the current people who are with him.

Even in Matt 3:2 John the baptist says that "Repent, for the Kingdom of heaven is near."

So my question is, what are some of the reasons given by believers to explain this one away. The people with Jesus are obviously dead, no kingdom has come, no second coming...what gives? I've heard something about the prophecy about the withering fig tree and Israel becoming a nation. That his followers at the time saw the kingdom when Jesus died. I'd like to see what others have to say about these verses.

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06-10-2013, 08:56 PM
RE: Thoughts From The Doubting Dragon
(06-10-2013 08:49 PM)DoubtingDragon Wrote:  Now for my first question. I was wondering what folks here make of these passages:
1. Matthew 16:28 "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the son of man coming in his kingdom."
2. Mark 9:1 And he said to them, "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God come with power."
3. Luke 9:27 "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of god."

When I read these passages, it seems pretty straight forward. There doesn't appear to be anything deeper to look at as far as interpretation. But that's just me at first glance. It seems to me that Jesus is expecting his return or at least the revealing of the Kingdom in the lifetime of the current people who are with him.

Even in Matt 3:2 John the baptist says that "Repent, for the Kingdom of heaven is near."

So my question is, what are some of the reasons given by believers to explain this one away. The people with Jesus are obviously dead, no kingdom has come, no second coming...what gives? I've heard something about the prophecy about the withering fig tree and Israel becoming a nation. That his followers at the time saw the kingdom when Jesus died. I'd like to see what others have to say about these verses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wandering_Jew

They always have some bullshit to pull out of their asses when it comes to biblical contradictions.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote:  America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense
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