Thoughts on BLM
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18-06-2016, 03:38 PM (This post was last modified: 18-06-2016 03:49 PM by TrainWreck.)
RE: Thoughts on BLM
(16-06-2016 02:37 PM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  You made a claim that you can't back up. Crap, I've never seen that online before.

I think you are a little biased, because you do not know how to reason, much like the opening poster.

(24-05-2016 12:13 PM)MrKrispy601 Wrote:  Black Lives Matter(BLM) is a group that defines itself as a unique contribution that goes beyond extrajudicial killings of Black people by police and vigilantes. Police and vigilantes. On the groups website it mentions nothing but cases of black men and women being harassed or in some cases killed by these two groups. Now although I do agree that the recent killings of the cases mentioned do deserve some recognition I think its rather peculiar that only these groups were mentioned.
I think BLM would better define itself, "as a unique contribution that goes beyond countering the extra-judicial killings of black people."

Notice the descriptor "countering," and the lower case spelling of "black." Capitalizing "Black," suggests a culture in such a context

(24-05-2016 12:13 PM)MrKrispy601 Wrote:  May 23 2016 Edward Nero was cleared of all charges against him in the death of the Freddie Gray. Most are calling for justice to be dealt(well the justice they want). The previous day (in the exact same city where Freddie Gray's death took place) Cortez Brown was shot and later died at a Siana hospital. The suspect, Brandon Lucas has been charged with first degree murder of Brown. Both the suspect and the victim were black.
This paragraph seems unrelated to the end of the previous paragraph that suggests that there would be further explanation of what #BLM is countering beyond white cops and vigilantes neutralizing vicious ghetto dwelling blacks with no useful purpose in society.

And, then this paragraph suggests that we should know the specific hospital!!! Laugh out load
This leads us to obviously understand that Mr. Krispy is an amateur cut and paste debater. And as we learn the description error described in the first paragraph is because of his cut and paste technique.

(24-05-2016 12:13 PM)MrKrispy601 Wrote:  Now this of course is no isolated incident. There are many cities throughout the U.S. where black on black killings are embarrassingly high and have been for some time.
There should be a comma after, "Now, and "course."

(24-05-2016 12:13 PM)MrKrispy601 Wrote:  Police were responsible for 102 unarmed black people in 2015 in the entire country. In the same year 366 black men were killed in the city of Chicago. Of that number police were responsible for 11. Of the 366, 67 of the suspects were black themselves and only 7 from other groups. That's right 287 of those killed don't even have suspects. Meaning the number can only go up for black men killed by other black men.

Now there are other cities that have similar statistics such as Baltimore, Oakland, New Orleans, and New York but for the sake of time I will invite you to do your own research.
However he was taught this technique of not providing links is a complete demonstration of how lazy this amateur is.

(24-05-2016 12:13 PM)MrKrispy601 Wrote:  Now I bring up these statistics not to say that the wrongful killings of black people across the country do not deserve attention or proper justice. Quite the contrary. I also fear for my life when pulled over so I understand this problem does exist. My problem is with the lack of attention to our own communities as black people. It is laughable that we cry over just a handful of instances against cops and not even mention the death of others. On the black lives matter website there is not one article or mention of deaths black men and women committed by other black men and women. I have seen many different demonstrations and protest in response to the killings of black people by cops. Many people tweet and discuss about this issue. But not a march, demonstration, or protest of this problem we have in our own communities.

It is absurd to believe that Mr. Krispy fears for his life when he is stopped by police - why would he stop, if he is in fear for his life??? Why doesn't he suggest that he should be more fearful of other blacks???

(24-05-2016 12:13 PM)MrKrispy601 Wrote:  This BLM movement is nothing more than the new NAACP which did nothing but exploit their own culture for hopes of a nice check. They are nothing more than hypocrites.
He thinks he is being compromising with white racists here, but does not back his statement up with any facts that suggests that the NAACP exploits their culture - when quite to the contrary the NAACP is a victim of its presumed culture. Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton exploit the plight of black people by extorting "white companies." The NAACP accepts charity from "white companies" that believe they are contributing to build the black culture.
(24-05-2016 12:13 PM)MrKrispy601 Wrote:  For those of you who support this movement, have you ever thought that we do not get the respect we seek due to black people not even respecting themselves, their communities, or anyone else for that matter? Until we can actually show respect to each other how can we demand respect from those outside of our culture?

Mr. Krispy seems to possibly be a troll looking for arguments to supplement BLM.

And, I suggest you understand the other posters here are afraid to correct black people for fear of being called "racist."

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Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
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18-06-2016, 04:45 PM
RE: Thoughts on BLM
Lol, I don't know how to reason, he says.
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18-06-2016, 07:36 PM
RE: Thoughts on BLM
Mr. Krispy is not a troll.

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18-06-2016, 08:02 PM
RE: Thoughts on BLM
I don’t understand you’alls fascination with the BLM (Bureau of Land Management). Shy

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19-06-2016, 04:20 AM
RE: Thoughts on BLM
I may have skimmed through too much , but I never saw mention of George Soros. This is a guy who's a major fund source for BLM and was exposed for funding and organizing the riots.
How many blacks in BLM would flip out if they realized that a Jewish Billionaire class White man was the one giving them their money to break windows? Talk about feeling used...
And I'm not exactly impressed with Soros... much like Hillary, I don't think he'd actually support the Black community if he was forced to do so. It's likely another motivation is lurking behind his support. But that's just pure speculation.

Just my two cents because while I may not be Black; there are many times I get involved with the subject matter either by being an activist myself or conversing with my black friends.
For me, I feel like one day I'd piss some one off because I tend to look at things as rationally or as logically as possible. I'd rather see numbers. Maybe it's my inner Engineer. I don't know.
But when I see stats from the DOJ, or FBI or my dad's PD that show that Black Males from ages of 14 to 17 having an obsessively higher homicide rate across ALL races (nearly ten fold versus other blacks!) when compared to other races, I want to know why.
What is the root cause here? Why?
I've dug this up before and it's a case of uncomfortable truths. Communities that source such violent crime rates tend to have demographics that are Religious, Uneducated and typically in Poverty.
When looking at those 3 factors across all races for crime, you'll see all groups show increases in killing when those three factors are met. This slightly transcends the Race hypethesis and lends credence to the idea that it's perhaps CLASS? Not sure. One argument suggested that the numbers look so screwed because of chance meeting - there's way more whites than Blacks... if that argument held true though, then Black killing Hispanic numbers should reflect numbers lower than whites but they're not. Blacks kill Hispanics more too. And again, I'll reiterate, most of all homicides perpetrated by the Black demographics belongs to the Male subgroup, and the age subgroup 14 to 17. The youth. Specifically male.
Let's review some basic stats.
Black population in the US - 13%
Black Population that is Male - 48%
Black Population that is Under 18 - 51%. I rounded the percentages here to get 8.5% for the range of 14 to 17.

If this is correct, this means that literally, 0.5304% of the the USA's total population is up to ten times more likely to commit homicide. It's a serious cause for alarm and rather than making a movement that causes riots, I'd rather look at things in a more investigative nature.

I personally see a cyclical based problem. Cries of Discrimination and White Guilt are such a repeated notion that I feel it has the opposite effect than intended. We spend so much time reminding our selves that Blacks and Whites are different, that Whites should have Guilt, but not Blacks. That Blacks should be treated differently because of Enslavement in the past.
Just replace a few words and you'll get an immediately racist statement. It's almost as if the Blacks are being taught that Racism is how you should see the world. Being so concerned about being judged, they've judged themselves. I've never called a Black person inferior. Ever. Not in the history of my life. But I've seen my black friends do it to themselves when confronting some one they feel is judging them. It's almost a self defeating dogma. Can anyone else vouch for this? I'm willing to say that it's culture.
On both sides, or ... ALL sides, Culture is a problem. I support this notion because of my recent hobby studies in Memetics (absolutely fascinating topic, really). I really feel that memetics is an important tool to see what's at play here.

In closing, I feel BLM is actually tarnishing the Black community's image and is actually making it worse. It's also offensive that some one like Soros is basically paying for Blacks to commit violent riots in place of peaceful assemblies. Does any one else see the problem that poses? Does any one else see the odd cycle of self loathing? Whites have largely moved on from this racist ideology but also, sadly seem almost Apathetic too. I mean, look at my own statements. I only see the numbers... not the souls (If there were any souls) lost to those violent acts. I can't connect to the blacks. I've been homeless before, even with Kids. Can't even do school because I'm white. I don't get help. When I tried applying for assistance during my homelessness, I saw 5 programs. If I reapplied, same info but changed my race to Black? I'd get 38. I clearly cannot relate to the Black community; that's literally what the government is shoving in my face. This sort've thing is what makes such a divide possible. So all I see is the numbers. Since the white community is the primary source for these special treatments, I feel there's excessive disenfranchising going on. Can any one else confirm this? Thoughts?
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19-06-2016, 09:20 AM (This post was last modified: 19-06-2016 10:05 AM by tomilay.)
RE: Thoughts on BLM
(19-06-2016 04:20 AM)Einharjar Wrote:  I may have skimmed through too much , but I never saw mention of George Soros. This is a guy who's a major fund source for BLM and was exposed for funding and organizing the riots.
How many blacks in BLM would flip out if they realized that a Jewish Billionaire class White man was the one giving them their money to break windows? Talk about feeling used...
And I'm not exactly impressed with Soros... much like Hillary, I don't think he'd actually support the Black community if he was forced to do so. It's likely another motivation is lurking behind his support. But that's just pure speculation.

Just my two cents because while I may not be Black; there are many times I get involved with the subject matter either by being an activist myself or conversing with my black friends.
For me, I feel like one day I'd piss some one off because I tend to look at things as rationally or as logically as possible. I'd rather see numbers. Maybe it's my inner Engineer. I don't know.
But when I see stats from the DOJ, or FBI or my dad's PD that show that Black Males from ages of 14 to 17 having an obsessively higher homicide rate across ALL races (nearly ten fold versus other blacks!) when compared to other races, I want to know why.
What is the root cause here? Why?
I've dug this up before and it's a case of uncomfortable truths. Communities that source such violent crime rates tend to have demographics that are Religious, Uneducated and typically in Poverty.
When looking at those 3 factors across all races for crime, you'll see all groups show increases in killing when those three factors are met. This slightly transcends the Race hypethesis and lends credence to the idea that it's perhaps CLASS? Not sure. One argument suggested that the numbers look so screwed because of chance meeting - there's way more whites than Blacks... if that argument held true though, then Black killing Hispanic numbers should reflect numbers lower than whites but they're not. Blacks kill Hispanics more too. And again, I'll reiterate, most of all homicides perpetrated by the Black demographics belongs to the Male subgroup, and the age subgroup 14 to 17. The youth. Specifically male.
Let's review some basic stats.
Black population in the US - 13%
Black Population that is Male - 48%
Black Population that is Under 18 - 51%. I rounded the percentages here to get 8.5% for the range of 14 to 17.

If this is correct, this means that literally, 0.5304% of the the USA's total population is up to ten times more likely to commit homicide. It's a serious cause for alarm and rather than making a movement that causes riots, I'd rather look at things in a more investigative nature.

I personally see a cyclical based problem. Cries of Discrimination and White Guilt are such a repeated notion that I feel it has the opposite effect than intended. We spend so much time reminding our selves that Blacks and Whites are different, that Whites should have Guilt, but not Blacks. That Blacks should be treated differently because of Enslavement in the past.
Just replace a few words and you'll get an immediately racist statement. It's almost as if the Blacks are being taught that Racism is how you should see the world. Being so concerned about being judged, they've judged themselves. I've never called a Black person inferior. Ever. Not in the history of my life. But I've seen my black friends do it to themselves when confronting some one they feel is judging them. It's almost a self defeating dogma. Can anyone else vouch for this? I'm willing to say that it's culture.
On both sides, or ... ALL sides, Culture is a problem. I support this notion because of my recent hobby studies in Memetics (absolutely fascinating topic, really). I really feel that memetics is an important tool to see what's at play here.

In closing, I feel BLM is actually tarnishing the Black community's image and is actually making it worse. It's also offensive that some one like Soros is basically paying for Blacks to commit violent riots in place of peaceful assemblies. Does any one else see the problem that poses? Does any one else see the odd cycle of self loathing? Whites have largely moved on from this racist ideology but also, sadly seem almost Apathetic too. I mean, look at my own statements. I only see the numbers... not the souls (If there were any souls) lost to those violent acts. I can't connect to the blacks. I've been homeless before, even with Kids. Can't even do school because I'm white. I don't get help. When I tried applying for assistance during my homelessness, I saw 5 programs. If I reapplied, same info but changed my race to Black? I'd get 38. I clearly cannot relate to the Black community; that's literally what the government is shoving in my face. This sort've thing is what makes such a divide possible. So all I see is the numbers. Since the white community is the primary source for these special treatments, I feel there's excessive disenfranchising going on. Can any one else confirm this? Thoughts?
You have to assume that Soros is funding riots. Is that the agenda of BLM? I mention elsewhere, without much traction, that I think their agenda is to fight against impunity for police who murder innocent blacks.

That is not to say there are no white victims or their lives don't matter. RocketSurgeon shared an analogy that I thought was useful http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...pid1013433 .

BLM are saying.

Don't strangle a man. To death. For selling singles.

Don't shoot a 12 year old. Playing with toy gun. In the playground.

Don't shoot a man. Holding an air gun. From a Walmart shelf.

Juries across the country are saying. It's ok. Do these things. Opponents of BLM would seem to be saying. It's ok. Do these things. Because black on black murder is through the roof.

Numbers are important. Violence in black communities by black perps is a big deal. That is NOT BLM's agenda to the best of my knowledge.

I think discrimination is a different topic. Racial discrimination is real. I am black. I have never had any negative experience with cops. I have actually gotten off with quite a bit.

Does it mean there is no race problem with policing? My personal experience tells me no. I generally don't fear interacting with police. But the thing this might obscure is the fact that 90% of police interactions with people of all races are pretty routine and even friendly.

Away from police I have had experiences that are strange. A few years ago Xfinity sends in cable guys. My five year old is home with me. I show them their stuff and they get to work.

Later after they've left, my son, black like me, says he was scared they were going to rob the house. Why? Because they look like robbers. Where does a kid who was still at daycare get that? Racial discrimination against blacks is so pervasive, even black people have to make an effort to free themselves from it.

Another time I am taking my son for swimming lessons. The gym rules say, no photos, except with clearance from management.

I get the clearance from the manager on duty. She says bring your camera and let the front desk know. Next day, I have my camera ready. I let the manager, a different lady, more elderly, on duty know.

She says no. No photographs. But, but, ... Nope. There is a look in the eye, I don't know how to describe it. The eye doesn't lie. Black people know it when they see it.

She was not even going to bother looking at the rules. She just insisted that I should never have been given permission in the first place and that was it. If I had raised a stink, I probably get my way. But then, probably not. She might have even called the police on me.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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19-06-2016, 05:56 PM
RE: Thoughts on BLM
(14-06-2016 08:39 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(14-06-2016 07:47 PM)SYZ Wrote:  Well, they would wouldn't they? Family and friends wouldn't say otherwise. I'm betting they didn't know about his shoplifting either.

I don't think that's a reasonable conclusion at all. A starry-eyed parent, perhaps, but practically everyone I saw mention him talked about that. And I'm sure they all saw the video of the shoplifting. If you watch that video, it's clear the boys decided to shoplift (a stupid, petty thing any teen might do, and you know it) in defiance, after trying to pay for it and being denied. It hardly makes those kids a monster [...]
So you're agreeing that they did try to purchase cigarettes ILLEGALLY, and—according to the law of the state—they were rightfully refused by the shopkeeper. Because of this just refusal, they both decided they'd break the law by stealing the cigarettes; which apparently, according to you, exonerates them of any crime.

Quote:
(14-06-2016 07:47 PM)SYZ Wrote:  WTF? So you're claiming it was partially the shopkeeper's fault for trying to restrain a shoplifter? That's verging on victim-blaming. What would you expect the shopkeeper to say? "Oh, my apologies boys, but I can't really let you walk out of here without paying. Oh... no money? That's fine then, off you go. Have a nice day".
No, the shopkeeper was free to call the police, and he was right to attempt to stop the boys. But once he physically barred his path, it became a physical confrontation instead of a verbal one, and it was at that point that Mike emphasized his larger size, as a way of saying "back the hell off of me!" [...]
He did call the police; what's your point? And the boys were the ones who initiated the "physical" assault on the shopkeeper—the video clearly shows Brown pushing him in the chest—and not the other way around. The boys should've just owned up to it and given the shopkeeper back the cigarettes, and probably defused the situation. Instead of that perfectly logical choice, they resorted to violence, and ran off.

Quote:They tried to pay and were told no because they were underage, so they defied the authorities, as teens are wont to do, and simply took it, like "ah, eff you and your stupid rules! Damn The Man™".
So now you're tacitly condoning petty crime? Because they legitimately considered themselves to be above the law ("your stupid rules")?

Quote:Yes, it makes total sense to me that Mike Brown would walk right up to a police car, reach inside the car through the driver's window, reach across the officer to the right side of his body, unsnap the holster, and attempt to withdraw his weapon in order to kill a police officer. Totally. [...]
Uh... Not how it happened according to all reports. Officer Wilson was already out of the car after forcing Brown back with its door. Also, do you have any reason to disbelieve Wilson's claim that Brown firstly struck him in the head, and possibly stunned him momentarily? Or did Wilson punch himself and cause the 2½" bruise on his jaw? Incidentally, Wilson was attacked by both Brown and Johnson outside of the cruiser, so yes, the gun/shots fired scenario is perfectly feasible.

Quote:The other reason Brown would have been in a position to grab the officer's gun is if the cop pulled it out and pointed it in Mike's face, making the boy reasonably fear for his life in a city (St. Louis) which is known to bury brown bodies more-or-less at will, if the officer says he is in fear for his life, the standard defense (they're also very fond of claiming the people they beat the hell out of were "resisting arrest", and thus the officers had to break their ribs, or occasionally even kill them, even when there was no legal reason to arrest them in the first place) [...]
Much of this is pure speculation on your part, and not supported by any of the evidence I've seen reported in any/all of the media. Yes, Wilson had already drawn his gun, but this is standard police procedure for a sole officer under the circumstances. And you've really got it in for the police haven't you? Supported only by hearsay I'd be guessing, (although I'd be happy to see some statistics about alleged police harassment in St. Louis County).

Quote:If you insist on looking at this situation with only your own neighborhood's perspective, without looking at the deep racist history of the state of Missouri and in particular the urban areas that are beginning to be "whitewashed" to make higher-tax-base neighborhoods (gentrification), then you will always miss the picture and fail to understand what the BLM people are even complaining about.
Can I assume from this you see this as a race-related incident, rather than the escalation of a criminal act? Would you say that if the boys had been white, then Wilson would not have shot at them—even if you accept that they were attempting to disarm him?

Quote:Thank you for defining White Privilege. I could not have done it better, myself.
Straw man. The incident is, at its core, all about the proliferation of crime amongst black youths, and nothing at all to do with "white privilege".

Quote:But it was a smallish college town in the rural south, and kids get bored and do stupid things while they're making the transition to adulthood and learning to work off their testosterone in more-productive ways, eventually, but doing a lot of stupid stuff in the meantime. I suspect your neighborhood wasn't as different as you're pretending, here.
I'm certainly not "pretending" about anything here. And in my youthful neighbourhood, nobody ever had shootouts with police, or did any other "stupid stuff" that actually necessitated police attendance. I will concede though that life was possibly vastly different in Australia in comparison to the American way of life way back then.

But, back on point; I think the BLM movement has its job cut out for it when these sorts of negative examples of young blacks breaking the law are so common, and increasing apparently. Look for example at what the blacks did in Ferguson after this shooting—even before it went to court. Did they really think rioting and burning and looting was going to help defuse the situation, or get justice served appropriately? Isn't this a "lynch-mob" mentality that whites gave up a century ago? More than 60 blacks were arrested over 2 days in Ferguson for looting, arson, and assault—what a great way to show your sense of social responsibility and good citizenship. Not.

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19-06-2016, 06:05 PM (This post was last modified: 19-06-2016 06:14 PM by TrainWreck.)
RE: Thoughts on BLM
(19-06-2016 09:20 AM)tomilay Wrote:  You have to assume that Soros is funding riots. Is that the agenda of BLM? I mention elsewhere, without much traction, that I think their agenda is to fight against impunity for police who murder innocent blacks.

Innocent people do not resist police orders. If you feel unsafe in a territory, I suggest you seek refuge in a safe territory. Why are all the colored people of the world coming to a racist country??? Why aren't black people warning the refuges of their certain demise in America?

(19-06-2016 09:20 AM)tomilay Wrote:  That is not to say there are no white victims or their lives don't matter. RocketSurgeon shared an analogy that I thought was useful http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...pid1013433 .

I did not think it made any sense.

(19-06-2016 09:20 AM)tomilay Wrote:  BLM are saying.

Don't strangle a man. To death. For selling singles.

Do not resist arrest when caught doing something illegal - the store owners do not want people selling looseys outside their store, because it cuts into their business. Eric Garner did not die of strangulation, he died of a heart attack because he did not take care of himself, because he was a overweight drug addict with poor temperament for the social risks he took, not an average person.

(19-06-2016 09:20 AM)tomilay Wrote:  Don't shoot a 12 year old. Playing with toy gun. In the playground.

Don't shoot a man. Holding an air gun. From a Walmart shelf.

Something very wrong with a person's mind if they are holding a toy gun and they refuse to disarm when told to put it down by an officer with a gun.

(19-06-2016 09:20 AM)tomilay Wrote:  Juries across the country are saying. It's ok. Do these things. Opponents of BLM would seem to be saying. It's ok. Do these things. Because black on black murder is through the roof.

WTF are you talking about??

(19-06-2016 09:20 AM)tomilay Wrote:  Numbers are important. Violence in black communities by black perps is a big deal. That is NOT BLM's agenda to the best of my knowledge.

I think discrimination is a different topic. Racial discrimination is real. I am black. I have never had any negative experience with cops. I have actually gotten off with quite a bit.

Does it mean there is no race problem with policing? My personal experience tells me no. I generally don't fear interacting with police. But the thing this might obscure is the fact that 90% of police interactions with people of all races are pretty routine and even friendly.

Away from police I have had experiences that are strange. A few years ago Xfinity sends in cable guys. My five year old is home with me. I show them their stuff and they get to work.

Later after they've left, my son, black like me, says he was scared they were going to rob the house. Why? Because they look like robbers. Where does a kid who was still at daycare get that? Racial discrimination against blacks is so pervasive, even black people have to make an effort to free themselves from it.

It's not racism in entertainment, it's observation of crime reports in the news. Or more probable he got it from his parents, or siblings.

(19-06-2016 09:20 AM)tomilay Wrote:  Another time I am taking my son for swimming lessons. The gym rules say, no photos, except with clearance from management.

I get the clearance from the manager on duty. She says bring your camera and let the front desk know. Next day, I have my camera ready. I let the manager, a different lady, more elderly, on duty know.

She says no. No photographs. But, but, ... Nope. There is a look in the eye, I don't know how to describe it. The eye doesn't lie. Black people know it when they see it.

She was not even going to bother looking at the rules. She just insisted that I should never have been given permission in the first place and that was it. If I had raised a stink, I probably get my way. But then, probably not. She might have even called the police on me.
So, which manager was a racist??? Did you do an experiment with a white person seeking to photograph kids in their bathing suits?
Maybe you need to clean up your act.

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
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19-06-2016, 06:36 PM
RE: Thoughts on BLM
Nothing really matters
anyone can see





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19-06-2016, 06:54 PM
RE: Thoughts on BLM
(18-06-2016 08:02 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  I don’t understand you’alls fascination with the BLM (Bureau of Land Management). Shy

Blooming luny muppets?

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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