Thoughts on BLM
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22-06-2016, 03:29 AM
RE: Thoughts on BLM
Did I mention that he's incapable of smart conversation?

Why, yes, yes, I did.
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22-06-2016, 04:49 AM
RE: Thoughts on BLM
(20-06-2016 11:17 AM)tomilay Wrote:  You have to assume that Soros is funding riots. Is that the agenda of BLM? I mention elsewhere, without much traction, that I think their agenda is to fight against impunity for police who murder innocent blacks.

I feel this entire statement is true. There's no real proof that Soros is directly funding the riots, but the money trail "suggests" he's encouraging them. I however, want to give the benefit of the doubt to him and believe his comment when asked about the link between him and his donations to BLM related protests - he claimed that he hopes the protests force the issues to come to light and evolve, to be dealt with.
There's nothing really criminalizing about that statement. Peaceful assemblies are amazing, so just from what I see? I'm not entirely willing to buy off that Soros is truly funding riots for his own gain. However, the motive, I feel, could be possible. SO I simply keep my mind open. I simply keep asking more and more questions.

(20-06-2016 11:17 AM)tomilay Wrote:  Sorry for the structure of my reply. I tried to summarize everything. My thoughts? That a point by point response would amplify exactly what BLM is not about IMO. I was mistaken.

I am going to try a point by point response. But first things first. I am not an expert on BLM or their agenda. I think on this forum RocketSurgeon76 is the expert. Maybe the OP as well. My views, are just informed by their actions. I don't speak for them.

Prior to the youtube age, I had a superficial knowledge about the ghetto. What goes on there. From the news. Music. Movies. Internet. I happen to be black. I know a lot of black people like that.

That said, I have decided to become more involved in whatever little ways I can. I have, in cahoots with a church(yes a religious institution) on the South Side(Chicago), set up a computer lab. The plan is to incubate promising young inner city kids into the world of software of development in my spare time(there is a lot of economic potential there). I still have to work out the details.

Dude, that it awesome. Keep it up! I really agree with your motivation and admire it. Great work!


(20-06-2016 11:17 AM)tomilay Wrote:  The assumption, how I understand it, is that he is deliberately financing riots if he funds BLM. Even if I conflate BLM protests, demonstrations or actual rioting with rioting, there is still a leap of faith I have to make to arrive at such a conclusion. I specifically have to assume to know what is in Soros' mind.

Yea same here. I feel there's a motive for such a conspiracy to occur - however because I'm skeptical, I still need proof before I try exclaiming that he's truly setting these riots up. The motive is there, but unproven. As a result, I'm not going to be some of those who say that's precisely what he's doing, but I am aware that it's possible. We can't tie him to this though unless... some how you find money trails that show Soros was involved in a weapons / defense deal with Ferguson PD or something... then we'd have more lead to go with.

(20-06-2016 11:17 AM)tomilay Wrote:  I don't feel that way just from your response. I am not saying wrongful killings should stop(even though I think they should). I am saying that nobody should enjoy impunity for a wrongful killing. That police should not expect automatic support from the system when they kill innocent people.

Ok I'm going to say something super controversial, but...
Blacks shouldn't expect impunity from Police defensive retaliation either.
I knew two cops in Seattle that were killed by Black teens (gangbangers) simply because they were cops. The men were just sitting. One was in his car, just looking at his PC and the other was in a restaurant getting a bite to eat. These were clear Hate Crime styled killing. Was it just white cops that were murdered? No. Cases began pouring in of Black and Latino officers too, gunned down in cold blood.
These killings, and others, were the reason why the whole Hate Crime definition now includes Police Officers. It's a questionable definition adjustment, because I think this is probably what you see as "impunity" for the Cops. This change in the definition to include Cops does kinda... screw the justice a bit. I'll admit. But again, I feel it goes both ways.

I take this reality personally. As the son of a Cop, in no way do I think it's fair for Cops to have impunity for unjust show of lethal force, but in no way am I going to accept a movement that says that the actions a few should be forgiven just because it was a Police Officer that showed the lethal force. I wanted my father to come home, safe, every night. (and still do, going on 30 years now)
He's in danger, every single night. Some nights less the others, some nights, worse. I can go both ways. I do not believe in the death penalty. However, when you place two men at odds that have escalated to the point that lethal force is to be evoked? Survival is all that matters, for either of them. Both are risking their lives at that point, and I find both lives just as valuable - even if the Cop is a douche bag, and even if the Black youngster is a Gang Banger that's provoking the Cop's lethal action. I just wanted to make that clear. Many of the lawsuits and protests my Dad was unillingly involved with in Dallas were motivated by the idea that Cops shouldn't have the right to kill anyone, despite the fact that some offenders are on PCP and literally cannot be stopped unless you're using a .45 cal HP round. Many of those lawsuits were filed when the perp TOOK THE FIRST SHOT. One of our close friends was KILLED when just knocking on the door to serve a warrant. He was shot 7 or so times, through the door, and died. The swarm of cops behind him of course, blew the perp away in retaliation - but get sued by the family under the motivation of BLM that the cops shouldn't have returned fire and killed their son. What the fuck? Again, I feel no killing is truly just, but damn, hypocrisy is a pet peeve and I hate it. What many of these groups are asking for is:
"We should have the right to bear arms! ... except for Cops". That's pretty much the gist of every law suit and is the reason why my dad purposely misses 1 shot during weapon qualifiers so that he doesn't ace the marksmanship courses. (he does it for liability reasons)

(20-06-2016 11:17 AM)tomilay Wrote:  More specifically, I think that the standard employed to clear them is too low.
This is very very true, actually. My dad complains about this a lot - departments will take nearly anyone who can walk or talk. As long as you make it through the academy without assaulting anyone or being overly sexists with the opposite gender next to you, you'll be a cop in no time - typically starting for a measly 15 an hour if you're to work booking at a jail or 45k a year for being on patrol.
Any douche with a power trip is liable to make it through, and they do. It's a massive root cause to the whole complaint that the people within BLM have. I believe it could be solved just at the hiring stage (most of it) for department recruiting.

(20-06-2016 11:17 AM)tomilay Wrote:  A justified wrongful killing should require more than just a fearful police officer; cops put(or should put) their lives on the line to protect innocent lives. It could also speak to the idea of getting more minorities to police their areas. They may be more familiar to harmless cultural cues that a cop from a nice suburb might interpret as a threat. Engender more trust and cooperation for the police..

This is a very good idea and is actually practiced.
Many areas in certain urban populations have their force deployed in homogenized methods, blacks will patrol predominately black areas, latinos wil patrol predominately latino areas, so on and so forth.
It's also a practice for major cities to have 2 cops per car and sometimes have at least one of the two, ethnic. It's better for relations and as long as neither of them are the typical douche bags we don't want actually serving? The Ethnic cop usually has some history concerning the poor areas he or she is ethnically related too which allows them to connect or provide strong motivation for assisting those areas (or even avoiding them entirely for they know the risks are too high). I've known a couple of black cops for years when I was growing up who both grew up in the projects. They remember very well the reality. They were sympathetic, but yet unbiased.

(20-06-2016 11:17 AM)tomilay Wrote:  Your last sentence speaks to where I think the problem is. Why the police enjoy impunity in wrongful killings. I am also guilty of that, before RocketSurgeon76 chimed in. As far I as was concerned, Mike Brown was a thug. And if he was wrongly killed, he probably deserved it. The little benefit of doubt I had, easily vanished with that video. Now I am not so sure. Though I still think, alas it's not that difficult to find a less controversial victim to rally around.

I think in terms of punishment, yes Cops do have a strong sense of impunity. It's rare to see a Cop actually jailed for murder. Note however that, due to their Police Work, "mistakes" are treated with impunity for a reason. If a Cop was charged with man slaughter every time they gunned down a man who had no weapon; Cops would likely stop being Cops OR, they'd be worse in terms of behavior. The traffic cops in Russia have a notorious reputation and it's largely because they're unarmed. Being so easily over powered means many just flee, don't respond to the crime, or if they get into a physical confrontation - straight up physical abuse occurs out of anger and frustration.
In the USA, between 2005 and 2011, only 11 Cops were convicted and prosecuted for unlawful killings during the line of Duty. These cases were indicted because of forensic evidence. In most cases, the Cops filed false reports. Because of the Forensics, they were caught. Forensics seems to be the fail safe - to a degree. We may not punish cops like Wilson in Ferguson as much as a normal civilian (imagine if it were you in that car, not as a cop, and Brown attempted to take your gun and hurt you and in response you gunned him down in self defense. You would in fact, face charged, no matter what the circumstance or how obvious the self defense plea) but it's hard justify doing so when they're paid to put them self in those situations when they occur - unlike you, which has the choice of running or calling for help.
Now, for a deeper thought on to why these killings occur, I've got a suggestion:
I feel Brown's motivation to attack the Cop was partially fueled by fear, if not fully. The stigma that has been grown thus far probably convinced Brown that since it was a white Cop, he'd just be shot if he turned and ran. We cannot prove this, but if this was Brown's train of thought and why he reasoned that it was worth the risk to try and take the officer's weapon (and then after words, straight up charge the officer later on) then we need to be asking ourselves... is BLM actually helping?

Just like how the ignorant white community demonizes blacks, BLM demonizes cops, which perpetuates the violence. This goes back to what I was inferring before where BLM does more to harm the image than improve it.
During the Ferguson case, several witnesses tried to say "he had his hands up saying 'no-surrender!' when Wilson shot him some 7 times!" only to find out that those particular witnesses were never around the scene at all - they lied. Why? What's the motivation for this? Is that really helping the BLM movement when you're lying about witness accounts to favor your POV? Speaking of which for those people who lied- WHAT IS the POV? Are they just as Biased as they claim the Cops to be? Is the Stigma mutual? Do they have an agenda?

(20-06-2016 11:17 AM)tomilay Wrote:  Which sides are these? Why won't they admit they are wrong? If it degrades to that level, it wont be from me. That I can guarantee.

BLM vs the Cops. Neither side will easily admit if they're wrong because of group mentality. The Witnesses in the Ferguson case who claimed Brown was holding his hands up yelling surrender? It took 3 months before finally 1 came out and admitted to lying, only AFTER the investigators revealed that they were lying in the first place. And yes, they were related to the BLM movement, as the protest chant was "Hands Up, I Surrender!" - a direct link to the supposed, but proven inaccurate, witness accounts of Brown's actions.
Like wise, I didn't see much information as to WHY Wilson felt it necessary to pump 7 rounds into Brown (it was actually 9, but the first two missed). I'm willing to say, based on the forensics, that Wilson was pretty shocked and honestly scared, and that's why he kept shooting and even missed the first two rounds. People think shooting some one is easy. Let me tell you, it's not. Still, the cops admitting that Wilson lost his nerve under pressure and out've fear, shot and killed Brown? Would be to still admit fault. And they wont in order to protect him. He was just doing his Job and was nearly injured if not killed as well.

(19-06-2016 11:22 PM)Einharjar Wrote:  So I tried to give a reality check. Despite the fact that Blacks do get kill by Cops unjustly, so do whites, so do Hispanics, so do Asians and every other race under the sun.
(20-06-2016 11:17 AM)tomilay Wrote:  This speaks to RocketSurgeon76's analogy. http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...pid1013433

A common assumption is that if police are forced to be fair to blacks, everyone reaps the benefits by default. Though some would argue that it would increase crime.

Ah, I see. The data makes this idea seemed... baseless. At least when it comes to killings. Well... let's take a look at the data any way and see if we can find some promise in this view.
[Image: police_01.jpg]
Whites are typically ALWAYS killed more than Blacks in "Justified Homicide" cases where an officer uses Lethal force. If we we're to treat Blacks more fairly, then perhaps let whites would die... not exactly the result BLM members would probably expect but...
Or, perhaps, lets just think rationally here - Whites are a larger population so, their death toll being higher is just by chance encounter only.
The Ratio for the Blacks if we go by population then, shows that more blacks DO die, in proportion to the Whites, but as I showed earlier - they're also the larger sole source of homicides in the US. There for a trend shows that you're 6 to 7 times more likely to encounter a violent Black Male than a White Male. It's there for proven that Black male encounters with Police are more likely, per incident, to escalate to violence on behalf of the perp, and violent outbursts from said perp more often results in the Officer using Lethal Force.

This is why you have the Cops screaming to treat this issue as a case by case basis. It's pretty difficult to make claims about treating everyone fairly when the statistics show that the cause of the proportionate amount of deaths is due to the perps' likelyhood of being violent - which is predicted by yet more statistical data.

This is more than just "treat blacks fairly". We need to repair the images of both groups. People need to hate cops a lot less, and not be so afraid of them. Cops need to tone down their own fears, and not be so reactive.

They could also stop buying so much fucking military gear but... that's getting into the conspiracy side. More on that later.

(20-06-2016 11:17 AM)tomilay Wrote:  I think you mean gangbangers in the inner city. Rather than black culture. There are many cultures, even in the inner city.
I want to acknowledge your correction and apologize. Yes. It's mainly this particular social economic group - impoverished urban communities. Black Culture as a whole is not at fault, the source of the 0.05408% is mainly urban, impoverished communities.
I won't say inner city because these hoods are never "down town". Coming from experience. Maybe it's my city boy POV, but I consider inner city to be Down Town areas - the hoods are there too but they're usually closely watched projects. The most violent hoods are the ones just outside the Inner City clutches and more into the Sub-Urban sprawl where smaller city police department's don't have the officer count or size to keep up with the fall out. Some of them don't even HAVE departments because they're so poor (due to the low tax revenue from having such poor house holds).
For Dallas, TX, as an example - these locations include places like Oak Cliff, Cedar Hill, Balch Springs, Pleasant Grove, Los Colinas, northern Carrolton, ect ect. Down Town has very high crime rates, but that's largely due to robbery and petty theft. This is a typical model for most major cities I've lived in, from LA, to Seattle, to Dallas, ect.

(20-06-2016 11:17 AM)tomilay Wrote:  Your question might really be why they kill each other so much. If I hazard a guess. I think their economic conditions are hopeless. They are latter day Al Capones; different forces, same solution.

And I agree and thought I made that point. As I mentioned above, they're often SO poor, that the city district they live in receives so little tax revenue as a result that many of these cities can't even afford their own Police force. So, these city areas typically contract to the larger force in the area, such as the hub central City. Poverty certainly does relate to crime and violence. Evidence for this goes back thousands of years, I bet.

(20-06-2016 11:17 AM)tomilay Wrote:  I think economic depression is a bigger problem than religion. The more religious people in the inner city are law abiding working class folks. In this church on the South Side, they occasionally have postings of working class and seasonal job opportunities. But they are few. They rely a lot on the city for menial jobs. There are no libraries. No bookstores. The church itself is an economic institution. Giving people second and third measly jobs.

Education is certainly key. I'd support free education for the most academically promising kids from the inner cities.
----------
yours has been an eventful life. In Chicago I have met a panhandler in a red line CTA station who wanted a piece of my fried chicken. Quite a few of those around town. Hunger. Another one was walking in the middle of the road with no apparent care on the South Side. Hopeless. A lot of normal people(not gangbangers) on corners. Unemployment.

Would any of these people kill me over a rap argument? I doubt it; not too long ago, I would have easily believed it. They could probably rob me, if they are sure they won't be caught. But more likely they won't do that if they had a job. I bet even if they didn't have job. Just a lot of mostly harmless black people. Going about their business.

I think it's worse here than in LA. In Chicago, the violence tends to be in Englewood and the Westside. Even children get caught in the crossfire. It happens almost every day. And there are a lot of police patrols. On the other hand, police wrongful killings are rare; but when they happen, justice is a pipe dream.

This persisting culture you talk about, I assume is gangbanging. It's the economy.

You keeping nailing the truth hard.
Yeah, the economy is a massive driver, if not, THE BIGGEST. I remember in San Bernardino, I knew the economy was complete shit and that Obama was lying because gang bangers were stealing the metal wiring from lamp posts and crap and selling the scraps for cash. That's a sure sign of "Yo, USA, you're population is starting to become Po' As Fuck!'. Yeah, we may not be 3rd world level of poverty yet but in some areas, it's REALLY close. Northern Auburn is burned in my mind... all those shanties.. everywhere. Thousands of them. Atlanta, same thing... Shanties everywhere. Charleston South Carolina... entire Tent City down there, a permanent homeless community with no where to go. And to top it off, for a country that's the wealthiest in the world? We bulldozed that entire homeless site and removed them forcefully. So much for being charitable. This country is falling apart pretty badly.

I know I've been through a lot and I don't mean to announce what I've gone through as if I was gloating. I hope that's not what it sounds like.
My experiences have been grim, from seeing things with my own eyes, having poor friends, being in a gang once myself, being homeless twice. I'm not asking for pity but at the same time, I am, because shit in this country is going south pretty hard. I want to know why the statistical anomaly exists for young black males in terms of homicide rates because I have empathy for them. I feel bad for young teens who feel that their only idol that relates to them is a rapper than that they're willing to shoot some one else over in a argument about who's more 'legit'. The poverty is so real, the soul crushing feeling of...
of not being able to provide for you daughters...
I've having your family homeless with you. It drives me to drink. I don't know how I've gone through it without going off the deep end like many other's have. LIke these young blacks have. I feel so bad for them because I've been there. I've been in the middle of it, the drugs, the oppression, the seclusion. I may be white, but even I get treated like shit just because I have no money.

Money is this country's biggest problem. This, do or die, you're on your own, survival of the fittest capitalistic culture that's brewing. The rivalry between work ethic and social support. When did morals get so fucked up?
When money became the source of power and security. That's when.

(20-06-2016 11:17 AM)tomilay Wrote:  I am not convinced that Soros funds riots. I don't like Clinton. I like Trump even less. That he is still in the running, even if he doesn't win, is sobering. Scary.

The killings of innocents, especially children, is tragic. Don't get me wrong. The killings have to stop. That said, I have a low tolerance for conspiracy theories. I have met someone who once said that Obama has stationed Russian troops on US territory. Just waiting to strike at the right moment. Needless to say, he is a Trump supporter.

I'm not convinced either, but I'm skeptical of his motives. This is largely because there's smoking gun Proof that those involved with the Clinton Foundation are at risk of being exposed are a part of the illegal deals that the organization is used for - namely weapon's dealing. Those e-mails are damning. Entire COMPANIES are involved in that, so call me a skeptic for wanting to know Soro's true motives when you include his relationship with the Clinton's and their finances.
---
Also
Rather pointless observation. I'm not saying that assertion nor do I support Trump, so I hope you're not committing false equivalence.

Having a low tolerance for conspiracy theory can be poisonous. Just be skeptical. I am. The skeptical view goes both ways though. Don't assume that the "official story" is true unless it checks out. Unless there are sources.
For the Ferguson shooting involving Wilson and Brown, the source material is there. There's still a chance the source material was doctored or faked but that's just being paranoid. There's a limit to being a Skeptic and being Paranoid.

(20-06-2016 11:17 AM)tomilay Wrote:  
(19-06-2016 11:22 PM)Einharjar Wrote:  Look at the NRA and the Orlando shooting... father's day has now passed and what do they tweet? "Buy your dad some guns!" You know, fuck the 50 person death toll, buy more guns!
And it works! It really does! After the shooting, gun sales went through the roof. You had Gays saying "I don't even feel safe anymore, so I bought myself a weapon" (seriously). SO you can see that it's not just BLM! Even the LGBT community is under assault and being used for a market!
Conspiracy theory.
I'll back off and say it's a hypothesis.
And a founded one.

What I've just said here is true, when it comes to the Gun sales, when it comes to the NRA not responding to the shooting in a sensitive manner, when it comes to NRA lobbied senators protecting the gun sales on live TV interviews within the last week, when it comes to the lobbied congress filibustering gun reform - there's so much going here that points to the possibility to a motive. Congress WONT pass laws to help prevent these attacks from happening... why?
Why won't they pass a simple fucking law that says 'if youre on the FBI watch list, like Omar was for 3 years... YOU CANT BUY A GUN right now". Why?
Follow the money trail. They're lobbied to NOT pass these laws. The NRA lobbies directly against these laws and for good reason, it hurts sales.
Sales also increase by a metric fuck ton every time a massacre occurs, this is a fact. It's because conservatives like my Dad, are bought into the fear mongering that the Democrats are some how going to take away their precious guns after a major shooting happens, so, they rush to buy more.

It's not exactly a leap of faith to assume that the NRA want's these atrocities to happen. They may not directly plan them, but the market powers do have the power and the knowledge to instigate them.
We have proof that weapon and defense markets do perpetrate these atrocities to propagate a market. That's why Eisenhower warned us "beware the military industrial complex".
To make my insight a bit more focused, I have direct family who was involved in that industry directly, working for defense contractors. I also work for an employer who's lobbying and backing Clinton for a weapon's deal that's the direct result to American Weapon's industry selling arms to extremist groups in Syria to fight Assad, all because the Russians are supplying Assad with deals. As both countries fight this proxy War, both sides make money while the country effected pays the price.

Reality check.

I'm proposing a Hypothesis that's got some ground. I'm not pulling it out've my ass like your average Trump Supporter. I'm simply taking what we know to be true for other companies and applying to the NRA.

(20-06-2016 11:17 AM)tomilay Wrote:  Are you saying that you, as a part of the white majority, demonize blacks?

I'm actually willing to admit this yes, because even I'm effected by the stereotyping and images we see every day. I can post those statistics proving that Blacks are the source of over half the murders in the USA and thus, demonize an entire culture even though as we agreed, it's really a minority of that culture that's impoverished.
Without me explaining the context of why I'm motivated to understand those statistics, I can definitely come off as demonizing, and I'll admit to that. It's obviously not my goal. I want awareness and empathy, not finger pointing and vindication for hatred.

Anyways, good discussion and I appreciate your rebuttals. Gotta get back to work.
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22-06-2016, 06:21 PM
RE: Thoughts on BLM
(22-06-2016 02:50 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(21-06-2016 08:46 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  My word I had forgotten how stupid this fucking idiot is. He also thinks NASA is was made for just white people and a lot of other insane nonsense like Harambe the gorilla that was shot was protecting the child from his "hysterical welfare mother"....... ya....

He's just a racist and a loser who can't hold a job or a residence. It would be pitiable if he didn't choose to come to this forum and play pretend and sling his racist delusions around. However he does so he's just a cunt.

He reminds me greatly of this "superior intellect" guy, who thinks he's so bright and superior, and can't understand why everyone else wants to drive them off a bridge. Seriously, compare the words coming out of the megaphone with what we just heard here.





Well, in answer, I'll just say, "I hate Illinois Nazis."
You should try reading the guys Facebook page it's fuckin' hilarious, though not intentionally. There are some just great bits of sad pathetic comedy on it.

Did you know for example that a brand new constitutional conventions was to be called in 2014-2015 and that the country would look to him, a poorly educated panhandling racist living off welfare to write it? Amazing!

He is also the founder, Executive Administrator, AND President (ho ho!) of the Secular Library founded in 2008 and has exactly zero likes on Facebook by anyone not him, a self described "Ayrian". Not only that but it's won awards! Two of them! Granted they are from it's self given to it's self but still! Two whole awards! One even has the words "peer-review" in it, which is impressive considering he has produced exactly zero pages of documentation for his peers, not that sewer rats can even read mind you.
He is hard at work though, having taken nearly a decade since its founding to come up with.....absolutely no documentation or thoughts of any kind. They have this though! Can you imagine how little work he would have gotten done if he had to have a job or actually contribute to society in any meaningful way at all instead of being a lazy leech?

It has not just one but TWO forums the best bits of comedy are that combined they have exactly two posting members: his dopey ass, his dopey ass role playing as the inventor of the Dewey Decimal system, and one racist poster repping for a hate group outta South Africa that is likely him again 'cause of course it is.
My favorite part is where he asks people in a forum that he is the only poster to restrict their replies to his critique.

Maybe funniest is the picture with the kid from the school he dropped out of twice where he tells the kid that he will " hear about me when the revolution breaks out".

I don't think I've every seen a better example of Dunning-Kruger in action, this guys attempts at self aggrandizement is just so sad and pathetic. It's almost like a ....shit what are the words I'm looking for...???

Oh ya a train wreak.Drinking Beverage

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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22-06-2016, 06:26 PM
RE: Thoughts on BLM
(21-06-2016 10:21 AM)TrainWreck Wrote:  
(21-06-2016 09:33 AM)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:  Hard to take anyone seriously when they have so obviously cocooned themselves inside their own belief-structure.
HuhHuhHuh

You and most everyone else have a faulty "belief-structure." Your beliefs are based on the misgivings of out-dated compromises. My signature presents the corrections to the inaccurate semantics that have been perpetuated. Atheists inherently see themselves as superior to theists simply because they do not believe in a supernatural. Atheists have built a "cocoon" of dogma that they are not willing to challenge, because they believe that terminology has been completely vetted.

They are much akin to the detractors of Albert Einstein's publication of a theory - they are waiting for the concrete proof that requires updated technology and experimentation. The problem is that atheists are waiting for their oppressors, the dominate theists, to do the review of the semantics. Atheists unwittingly believe that the dictionary definitions are without fault; although they debate what to call themselves - atheist, brights, freethinkers, humanists, etc..

Which is similar to the unwitting activities of black civil rights advocates - they are waiting for their oppressors, the white majority, to better organize community; instead of doing it themselves.

You clearly do not know what atheism is and your signature demonstrates you don't have a clue what humanism is.

Why are you even here? Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-06-2016, 09:30 PM
RE: Thoughts on BLM
[Image: police_01.jpg]

Einharjar,

Looking at your chart, it's clear that police mediated homicides are rare. And that whites are the most victims. And the black victims share of this is disproportionate. 385 victims in a population of over 300 million. It's a small number. Is it regrettable? Yes. Should anyone worry about running into a rogue cop? Yes. But we can't be hysterical about it.

My own experience is that police are generally decent folks. That is not to deny the legitimate outrage of people who are victims of the rogue cops. Looking at those numbers, it is clear, to me at least, that for the most part, people of all races can, and indeed do, go about their businesses without fear. Unmolested by the police.

Does that mean that BLM have no business to go after the police? Of course not. It doesn't bother me one way or the other. But it's scant consolation to tell the families of victims of police brutality about the 99% good cops, after yet another acquittal by a jury of the cop's peers.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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23-06-2016, 12:08 AM
RE: Thoughts on BLM
(22-06-2016 06:21 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Did you know for example that a brand new constitutional conventions was to be called in 2014-2015 and that the country would look to him, a poorly educated panhandling racist living off welfare to write it? Amazing!
(22-06-2016 06:26 PM)Chas Wrote:  You clearly do not know what atheism is and your signature demonstrates you don't have a clue what humanism is.

Oh, I’m so embarrassed - I'm so humiliated. I'll probably go jump off the bridge. Weeping

Fuck all of you Sadcryface2

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
I am right, and you are wrong - I hope you die peacefullyCool
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23-06-2016, 06:42 AM
RE: Thoughts on BLM
(23-06-2016 12:08 AM)TrainWreck Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 06:21 PM)WhiskeyDebates Wrote:  Did you know for example that a brand new constitutional conventions was to be called in 2014-2015 and that the country would look to him, a poorly educated panhandling racist living off welfare to write it? Amazing!
(22-06-2016 06:26 PM)Chas Wrote:  You clearly do not know what atheism is and your signature demonstrates you don't have a clue what humanism is.

Oh, I’m so embarrassed - I'm so humiliated. I'll probably go jump off the bridge. Weeping

Fuck all of you Sadcryface2

Well you would finally have an accomplishment that was beneficial to humanity. Drinking Beverage

Or alternatively you just....you know...stop being a stupid, racist, cunt , with delusions of superiority and actually go get a bloody job.o r at least go back to your cave and get off the forum.

When valour preys on reason, it eats the sword it fights with.
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23-06-2016, 08:06 AM
RE: Thoughts on BLM
(22-06-2016 09:30 PM)tomilay Wrote:  [Image: police_01.jpg]

Einharjar,

Looking at your chart, it's clear that police mediated homicides are rare. And that whites are the most victims. And the black victims share of this is disproportionate. 385 victims in a population of over 300 million. It's a small number. Is it regrettable? Yes. Should anyone worry about running into a rogue cop? Yes. But we can't be hysterical about it.

My own experience is that police are generally decent folks. That is not to deny the legitimate outrage of people who are victims of the rogue cops. Looking at those numbers, it is clear, to me at least, that for the most part, people of all races can, and indeed do, go about their businesses without fear. Unmolested by the police.

Does that mean that BLM have no business to go after the police? Of course not. It doesn't bother me one way or the other. But it's scant consolation to tell the families of victims of police brutality about the 99% good cops, after yet another acquittal by a jury of the cop's peers.

Has it come by you that it might not be a race thing? It could just be that people in bad areas tend to have more interactions with the police, and it just so happens to be black people.

[Image: Guilmon-41189.gif] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOW_Ioi2wtuPa88FvBmnBgQ my youtube
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23-06-2016, 08:52 AM
RE: Thoughts on BLM
(23-06-2016 08:06 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(22-06-2016 09:30 PM)tomilay Wrote:  [Image: police_01.jpg]

Einharjar,

Looking at your chart, it's clear that police mediated homicides are rare. And that whites are the most victims. And the black victims share of this is disproportionate. 385 victims in a population of over 300 million. It's a small number. Is it regrettable? Yes. Should anyone worry about running into a rogue cop? Yes. But we can't be hysterical about it.

My own experience is that police are generally decent folks. That is not to deny the legitimate outrage of people who are victims of the rogue cops. Looking at those numbers, it is clear, to me at least, that for the most part, people of all races can, and indeed do, go about their businesses without fear. Unmolested by the police.

Does that mean that BLM have no business to go after the police? Of course not. It doesn't bother me one way or the other. But it's scant consolation to tell the families of victims of police brutality about the 99% good cops, after yet another acquittal by a jury of the cop's peers.

Has it come by you that it might not be a race thing? It could just be that people in bad areas tend to have more interactions with the police, and it just so happens to be black people.

Yes. And the numbers seem small. They might be higher if you count injuries; but still small.

The issue IMO arises after the fact. What happens if or when the case goes to court. I might have more beef with juries, prosecutors, than the police if I were BLM. In the courts, the victim's race can and does matter. Any lawyer worth his salt will tell you that.

I don't have time to bring up examples, but it is easy, too easy, to justify the killing of a young black male. And that fact might also affect the likelihood of him falling victim to a rogue cop.

We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning ~ Werner Heisenberg
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23-06-2016, 10:19 AM
RE: Thoughts on BLM
(23-06-2016 08:52 AM)tomilay Wrote:  
(23-06-2016 08:06 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  Has it come by you that it might not be a race thing? It could just be that people in bad areas tend to have more interactions with the police, and it just so happens to be black people.

Yes. And the numbers seem small. They might be higher if you count injuries; but still small.

The issue IMO arises after the fact. What happens if or when the case goes to court. I might have more beef with juries, prosecutors, than the police if I were BLM. In the courts, the victim's race can and does matter. Any lawyer worth his salt will tell you that.

I don't have time to bring up examples, but it is easy, too easy, to justify the killing of a young black male. And that fact might also affect the likelihood of him falling victim to a rogue cop.

This is a very scary but true statement.

One of my aunts is a lawyer and even she'll admit to this. It's just a game of slander when it comes to law. It's about painting a villain and making a victim.

Now, I will tell you this - they don't do this because they're racist (sure some Lawyers are, but they'll be kicked off the bar pretty quickly unless it's like.. South Carolina or something. I fucking hate that state), they do this because of statistical research.
They know that the population as a whole has racist views, which is why any smart lawyer will claim that institutionalized racism is a thing. The Jury really isn't racist at heart, but they've been educated to be over time - their environment, their exposures - after all it's been said before "Tell a lie and repeat it enough times, eventually they will believe it".

Lawyers thus act much like sales men in the court room. The Jury is their market and their goal is to slander one product while making their product look like gold. Market statistics show that the majority of the market is racists by habit but also has White Guilt by habit, so it's easier for lawyers to win a case when victimizing Blacks as well as Demonizing them (depending on what side of the case they're on). This goes for all minorities for that matter. When 78% of your market is brain washed into practicing unwillingly racist habits but also practicing traits of White Guilt, you're going to pander to that reality to win the case by emotion, not by logic.
And this goes even for individuals versus corporate powers.

I'm in a law suit right now and the entire motive of my lawyer is all about dragging as much sympathy for me and my family as much as possible. The evidence I have in my corner is absolutely damning but in the end, it's the emotional plea, the assumption and statistical fact that Jury's think company's have no heart and suck balls and the fact that, Jury's will favor a plaintiff who has Kids involved in the situation.

This is just one other symptom of a greater crime. It's not the root cause, just a side effect. The culture over all, is the problem.
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