Thousands file resignation letters from the LDS Church
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16-11-2015, 09:12 AM
RE: Thousands file resignation letters from the LDS Church
The normally loquacious Alla seems rather quiet in response to the very simple question: How, specifically, does this kind of prejudice "protect" children?

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16-11-2015, 09:28 AM
RE: Thousands file resignation letters from the LDS Church
November 3, 2015
Policies on Ordinances for Children of a Parent Living in a Same-Gender Relationship
The following additions to
Handbook 1
have been approved by the Council of the First Presidency and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles for immediate implementation.


A new section in
Handbook 1
, 16.13 will be added as follows: Children of a Parent Living in a Same-Gender Relationship

A natural or adopted child of a parent living in a same-gender relationship, whether the couple is married or cohabiting, may not receive a name and a blessing. A natural or adopted child of a parent living in a same-gender relationship, whether the couple is married or cohabiting, may be baptized and confirmed, ordained, or recommended for missionary service only as follows: A mission president or a stake president may request approval from the Office of the First Presidency to baptize and confirm, ordain, or recommend missionary service for a child of a parent who has lived or is living in a same-gender relationship when he is satisfied by personal interviews that both of the following requirements are met:

1. The child accepts and is committed to live the teachings and doctrine of the Church, and specifically disavows the practice of same-gender cohabitation and marriage.

2. The child is of legal age and does not live with a parent who has lived or currently lives in a same-gender cohabitation relationship or marriage.

Changes to Handbook

Hmmmmm. Not seeing anything about protection.

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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16-11-2015, 10:03 AM
RE: Thousands file resignation letters from the LDS Church
(16-11-2015 09:28 AM)Thinkerbelle Wrote:  2. The child is of legal age and does not live with a parent who has lived or currently lives in a same-gender cohabitation relationship or marriage.

Changes to Handbook

Hmmmmm. Not seeing anything about protection.

This looks to be specifically targeted towards separating children from their parents. Though getting children away from the influence of Mormonism would be good for them, but that's obviously not what they're aiming for here.

Always interesting and disgusting when someone will generate excuses for blatant prejudice like this.

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16-11-2015, 11:58 AM
RE: Thousands file resignation letters from the LDS Church
Has anyone made the "this policy protects children from LDS" joke yet?

*checks* Yup.

Oh well, I can't get ALL of the low-hanging fruit.

But seriously, not only is this policy not protecting children (in any other way save getting them out of the church), but I cannot for the life of me devise any interpretation of this policy, even under batshit-religious-think, that makes sense as protecting the children.

Is it supposed to be that being raised contrary to LDS teachings is harmful? Then how does further alienating the child and family from the church protect against this?

Is it that gays are supposedly more likely to engage in pedophilia? Then how does alienating the child and family from the church protect against this? (Besides the obvious.)

Is it that same-sex couples are presumably unlikely to properly teach Mormon doctrine that includes the condemnation of same-sex couples, thereby making it unlikely for the child to qualify for baptism, salvation, and a planet of their very own? Then how does distancing them from the church's "good" teaching protect them from the "bad" teaching?

Is it that they are trying keep from alienating minors from their families by telling them their parents are sinful, and therefore they're holding those minors at arm's length until they reach their majority? Why, then, the requirement that they repudiate their parents? Do children of coffee-drinkers have to repudiate THEIR parents? (Also, I'd file this reasoning under "protect them from the church".)

How on EARTH is this about protecting the children?

This makes far more sense if seen as protecting the church, and specifically the bigotry of its members, from any contact which normalizes verboten behaviors and marginalized people. It's about protecting the prejudice from facts and first-hand experience. A normal, well-adjusted child raised by gays? CAN'T ADMIT IT EXISTS! SHUN IT! MARGINALIZE IT! BLAME THE RESULTING TRAUMA ON THE PARENTS! IF WE DON'T IT MIGHT BRING ITS ACCEPTANCE OF GAY RELATIONSHIPS INTO THE CHURCH! OUR DOGMA MIGHT CHANGE FROM THE GRASSROOTS UP RATHER THAN THE HIERARCHY DOWN!

Someone realized that knowing gay people (and knowing that they are gay) makes people more accepting of gay people. That's what this policy seems to protect against.
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16-11-2015, 12:06 PM
RE: Thousands file resignation letters from the LDS Church
(16-11-2015 11:58 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  Someone realized that knowing gay people (and knowing that they are gay) makes people more accepting of gay people. That's what this policy seems to protect against.

I see it being constructed as blackmail. The kids aren't going to understand, but the parents will. "Stop your filthy ways or your children will suffer."

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
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16-11-2015, 12:45 PM
RE: Thousands file resignation letters from the LDS Church
(16-11-2015 12:06 PM)Thinkerbelle Wrote:  
(16-11-2015 11:58 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  Someone realized that knowing gay people (and knowing that they are gay) makes people more accepting of gay people. That's what this policy seems to protect against.

I see it being constructed as blackmail. The kids aren't going to understand, but the parents will. "Stop your filthy ways and pay us 10% of your income or your children will suffer."

added extra info

also is it just a coincidence that "mormon" sounds a lot like "moron" ?
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16-11-2015, 12:48 PM
RE: Thousands file resignation letters from the LDS Church
(15-11-2015 08:19 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(15-11-2015 08:11 PM)Cosmic Discourse Wrote:  The thing about resignation in the LDS church is that you can always just stop attending, but if your name remains on their records, you'll continue to receive periodic visits from missionaries, phone calls and the occasional leadership visit.

It's better to file the paperwork, so that it's in writing that you'd like no further contact or affiliation with the church.

I understand your position, but it's not as quick of a process as it is in other mainline protestant congregations (basically no process, just stop showing up and answering calls, and they'll forget about you).

Yabut, lawyers? Facepalm

Considering how irrational cults can be, I'd think it's perfectly reasonable to obtain a lawyer prior to leaving the cult. There is also fallout from your own family that should be taken into account.

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16-11-2015, 01:07 PM
RE: Thousands file resignation letters from the LDS Church
(16-11-2015 12:06 PM)Thinkerbelle Wrote:  
(16-11-2015 11:58 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  Someone realized that knowing gay people (and knowing that they are gay) makes people more accepting of gay people. That's what this policy seems to protect against.

I see it being constructed as blackmail. The kids aren't going to understand, but the parents will. "Stop your filthy ways or your children will suffer."

Soooo.... the existential hell-blackmail didn't work, and the emotional betrayed-your-parents-faith blackmail didn't work, so they went and tried blackmail again?

I mean really, just how dumb do you think the people who come up with these doctrines can poss-...

....

It's just repeating the same old strategy year after year after year without any indication that it actua-...

.....

.... okay, yeah, they could be that dumb.
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16-11-2015, 02:23 PM
RE: Thousands file resignation letters from the LDS Church
(15-11-2015 10:13 PM)Aliza Wrote:  -Though, this does bring up a new question for Alla. What does the Church teach will happen to people who are not baptized in the Mormon church?
The Church teaches that all those who are not baptized in the Church will receive either terrestrial glory or telestial glory. Even telestial glory is much better then any most beautiful place right now on Earth.
I also want to say that children are not denied of opportunity to be baptized, they only have to wait.

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16-11-2015, 03:15 PM
RE: Thousands file resignation letters from the LDS Church
(16-11-2015 02:23 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(15-11-2015 10:13 PM)Aliza Wrote:  -Though, this does bring up a new question for Alla. What does the Church teach will happen to people who are not baptized in the Mormon church?
The Church teaches that all those who are not baptized in the Church will receive either terrestrial glory or telestial glory. Even telestial glory is much better then any most beautiful place right now on Earth.
I also want to say that children are not denied of opportunity to be baptized, they only have to wait.

That makes me curious; when you folk baptise a dead person, like holocausted Jews for instance, do they get a paradise upgrade when it happens? And if you remove their names from the register of baptised dead people (like you had to do with the aforementioned Jews), do they get downgraded?

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