Three Scenarios
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14-10-2013, 05:06 PM
Three Scenarios
I offered my theist friend three scenarios, and asked what she would feel about each one.

a) The world is exactly as this world is. No different in any aspect of your life at all. The past is exactly the same as the past is, the present exactly the same as this moment, and the future will unfold exactly as it will anyway. There is no difference, and no possible way you could know any difference because it is exactly the same as it is now, was in the past, and will be in the future.

Except: “God” IS NOT real, there IS NO heaven or hell, NO devil, angels or demons, or supernatureal , NONE of the bible is true, and there is NO after life. But you experience the world exactly as you are anyway. You continue to believe if you believe, but none of it’s real. But everything that happens in life happened exactly the same way as it would happen either way, not difference.


b) The world is exactly as this world is. No different in any aspect of your life at all. The past is exactly the same as the past is, the present exactly the same as this moment, and the future will unfold exactly as it will anyway. There is no difference, and no possible way you could know any because it is exactly the same as it is now, was in the past, and will be in the future.

Except: “God” IS real, there IS a heaven and hell, IS a devil, angels and demons, the supernatureal IS real and all of the bible IS true. But NO ONE AT ALL, good or bad has an afterlife. There is a heaven and hell, but no people go there or anywhere when they die. Life is just over, but the rest of it is real. But you experience the world exactly as you are anyway. You continue to believe if you believe, but everything that happens in life happened exactly the same way as it would happen either way, not difference.


c) The world is exactly as this world is. No different in any aspect of your life at all. The past is exactly the same as the past is, the present exactly the same as this moment, and the future will unfold exactly as it will anyway. There is no difference, and no possible way you could know any because it is exactly the same as it is now, was in the past, and will be in the future.

Except: “God” IS real, there IS a heaven and hell, IS a devil, angels and demons, the supernatureal IS real and all of the bible IS true. And THERE IS an afterlife and you CAN go to heaven, and heaven will be exactly the same as you expect it to be. But you experience the world exactly as you are anyway. You continue to believe if you believe, but everything that happens in life happened exactly the same way as it would happen either way, not difference.


There is no difference between any of these scenarios, as you can determin in life. There is no way to tell if you are in one senerio verses the others, because your life unfolded exactly the same way in each. The only exception is, no “God” or after life, there is a “God” but no afterlife, or there is a “God” and is an afterlife. Regardless of the fact that if you were in them you would have no way of knowing what scenario you are in and would experience the the exact same way no matter what, what do you feel about the three?

Her response…

a) If I did not have children I would kill myself. I would not have had children in the first place. There would be no purpose so I’d rather be dead. I'd keep living if I already had children for the sake of the children, but without "God" there would be no point or purpose.

b) I would feel better about there at least being a “God” and purpose, so I would not kill myself. But I would not bring children into the world if there is no better life to go to after it’s over.

c) I would much prefer this life for sure, and would feel fine about it.


I reminded her there would be no way you would know the difference of any of them. Your time on earth would be exactly the same in all three. You would continue to believe in “God” no different than you would if “he” was real, no less than if “he” were not, and not a single experience would be different, no matter how small or insiginfigant. It would be exactly the same life either way, but if no “God” you’d rather kill yourself, even though there would be no difference than if it were the third scenario? She repeated that she understood the concept that there would be no difference, but yeah, if she on the outside looking in knew that “God” did not exist, she’d rather kill herself. I asked, “Literally kill yourself? Not just be dead, or not be alive, but actually kill yourself if you had the knowledge there is no “God”?” She said “yes”.

But you would happily continue to live in the third scenario, even thought there would absolutely no difference at all. The second scenario was asked to see if the only reason she believes in “God” is for the afterlife, heaven, or if she still finds value in “God” for the sake of “God”. The reaction was mixed. She at least wouldn’t kill herself if there was a “God”, but she clearly views the “God” without the reward of heaven is not worth life, as she said she would not purposely bring children into such a world that has no “better place” at the end of it. The only reason why she wouldn’t kill herself is that because of “God’s” existence and purposeful creation of the world and mankind, at least there is purpose for us to be here. But if we were here with “no purpose” to being here, then she’d rather kill herself.

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14-10-2013, 05:30 PM
RE: Three Scenarios
Tell her option #4 is - There is a god but he doesn't have a purpose specifically in mind for your life.

Better yet tell her how selfishly spoiled she is. If this life isn't exactly the way she wants it to be, she throws a tantrum and holds her breath until she dies. How pathetic.

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14-10-2013, 05:33 PM
RE: Three Scenarios
(14-10-2013 05:30 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Tell her option #4 is - There is a god but he doesn't have a purpose specifically in mind for your life.

Better yet tell her how selfishly spoiled she is. If this life isn't exactly the way she wants it to be, she throws a tantrum and holds her breath until she dies. How pathetic.

PATHETIC. Absolutely perfect description. What a fucking baby. Get over yourself.

Don't sell yourself short Judge, you're an incredible slouch.

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14-10-2013, 05:43 PM
RE: Three Scenarios
(14-10-2013 05:30 PM)Rahn127 Wrote:  Tell her option #4 is - There is a god but he doesn't have a purpose specifically in mind for your life.

Better yet tell her how selfishly spoiled she is. If this life isn't exactly the way she wants it to be, she throws a tantrum and holds her breath until she dies. How pathetic.

That's like of why I offered the middle option, cut the difference. There is a "God", in the second senario, but no after life. I think she really wanted to respond the first way, as with no "God", because there would be no reward after death, but realized it would be disrespectful to "God" to come across as only carrying about "God" if she got the reward, but not if she did not.

...
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14-10-2013, 06:05 PM
RE: Three Scenarios
I forgot to add...

I also did ask, for purpose of clarity, if it would be accurate to say, regardless of reality, because if she were in the scenario she would not know which one it was, she would prefer that the third be the one she was in over the first or second, and the second would be at least better then the first, if the third was not an option. To this she agreed.

I there for asked, would it be fair to say that you would if she were in the scenario, not knowing which she were in, she would, based on the previous question, rather believe the third scenario to be true over the first or second. Again, to this she agreed.

So, I pointed out, not knowing what this reality is, "God" or no "God" you'd rather believe there was one even if reality was that there was not one, as long as you have no way of knowing there was no "God" anyway.

Again, to this she agreed, adding that she would rather believe in "God" and be wrong, then not believe in "God" and be right.

I then pointed out, "So you're belief has nothing to do with wanting to know truth, or reality. It's only about what you want to believe reality to be". She said, "Yeah, I'd rather believe God is real, then not believe God is real".

"Even if "he" is in fact not real?", I asked. ..."sure", she said.

...
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14-10-2013, 07:24 PM
RE: Three Scenarios
Clearly your friend values life very much.

Why the hell would you give up absolutely everything because you discover life has no purpose?

Tell your friend to read a bit about existentialism and nihilism.

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14-10-2013, 07:34 PM
RE: Three Scenarios
Nice experiment.

You missed an option:
No god but there is an afterlife.

Was that deliberate?

And the 'many gods' scenario?
Best not confuse the poor girl.

No

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14-10-2013, 08:22 PM
RE: Three Scenarios
(14-10-2013 06:05 PM)Raptor Jesus Wrote:  I forgot to add...

I also did ask, for purpose of clarity, if it would be accurate to say, regardless of reality, because if she were in the scenario she would not know which one it was, she would prefer that the third be the one she was in over the first or second, and the second would be at least better then the first, if the third was not an option. To this she agreed.

I there for asked, would it be fair to say that you would if she were in the scenario, not knowing which she were in, she would, based on the previous question, rather believe the third scenario to be true over the first or second. Again, to this she agreed.

So, I pointed out, not knowing what this reality is, "God" or no "God" you'd rather believe there was one even if reality was that there was not one, as long as you have no way of knowing there was no "God" anyway.

Again, to this she agreed, adding that she would rather believe in "God" and be wrong, then not believe in "God" and be right.

I then pointed out, "So you're belief has nothing to do with wanting to know truth, or reality. It's only about what you want to believe reality to be". She said, "Yeah, I'd rather believe God is real, then not believe God is real".

"Even if "he" is in fact not real?", I asked. ..."sure", she said.

That was excellent !!!

You got her to admit that her belief is based on the fact that this is what she wants to believe, no matter what the facts are.

Bravo !!! I love it !!

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14-10-2013, 08:45 PM
RE: Three Scenarios
(14-10-2013 07:34 PM)DLJ Wrote:  ...
You missed an option:
No god but there is an afterlife.
...
Damn...good point. Hopefully I can try it out next time. But usually with this one you can only work with her when you have momentum.

She used to want to talk to me about religion all the time when she first opened up to me. She did not realize what can of worms she had opened by doing so. Now I think she is more reserved with bringing it up because she knows it leads (due to me) to uneasy questions and she's mostly never had to think deeply about her beliefs before and is not used to it.

There are times she seems prepared to go there and allows it, but then kind of shuts of when it gets overwhelming for her. Unfortunately it's just those moments when it gets overwhelming that the most work is being done.

(14-10-2013 07:34 PM)DLJ Wrote:  ...
Best not confuse the poor girl.
...

She will only handle so much at a time...I agree.

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14-10-2013, 08:48 PM
RE: Three Scenarios
She seems to not know much about the old testaments. Says she doesn't have enough time to read it all with a bunch of kids.

I told her I'm going to bring my bible (vestigial from when I still went to church until I was seven) so that we can have bible study. She said, "Oh good, so now I might be able to convert you to Christianity". I just thought to myself...you have no idea...

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