Three creation accounts
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18-01-2016, 10:19 AM
Three creation accounts
Many critics of the Bible claim that it begins with two contradictory creation accounts. They say that chapter 1 describes a six day creation in which plants and animals are created before humans and chapter 2 describes the creation of plants and animals after the first human was created.

Actually the first two chapters of the Bible contain three creation accounts and if you study them carefully you will find there are no contradictions between them.

The first account is Genesis 1:1.

Quote:In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

We learn from this that God created everything. The next verse begins the account of how the earth was created.

Quote:The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

This is followed by a period of six days in which God created the earth and a seventh day on which he rested. In this time it was only the earth that was created, not the rest of the universe. The belief that God created the universe during this time is based on a misunderstanding of what God did the fourth day.

Quote:And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years, and let them be lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth.” And it was so.

And God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars. And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening and there was morning, the fourth day.
Genesis 1:14-19 ESV

It says that God placed lights in the sky. It does not say that he created the bodies that produced the lights at this time. This section begins with the earth in complete darkness. This darkness was probably the result of a cloud cover over the earth that kept any light from reaching it. On the first day, when God said, “Let there be light,” the cloud cover thinned enough so that light could reach the earth but sun itself couldn’t be seen. On the fourth day God removed the clouds completely so that the sun, moon, and stars could be seen. For more about this subject, read this:

https://clydeherrin.wordpress.com/2014/0...-universe/

Man was created on the sixth day. The account of how the earth was created is followed by a detailed account of his creation. It begins with these words:

Quote:When no bush of the field was yet in the land and no small plant of the field had yet sprung up—for the LORD God had not caused it to rain on the land, and there was no man to work the ground, and a mist was going up from the land and was watering the whole face of the ground—then the LORD God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature.
Genesis 2:5-7 ESV

Some see a contradiction between the statement that no plant of the field had been created and the previous statement that God created plants on the third day. The reference to plants of the field only means that God had not yet created those plants that require human effort for their cultivation. And the creation of animals is mentioned after the creation of man but it isn’t clearly stated just when that creation took place.

Quote:Now out of the ground the LORD God had formed every beast of the field and every bird of the heavens and brought them to the man to see what he would call them. And whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name.
Genesis 2:19 ESV

Chapter 1 describes the creation of the earth in chronological order. Chapter 2 focuses on the creation of man and other parts of the creation are mentioned when they affect man.

The Bible begins with three creation accounts: the creation of the universe, the creation of the earth, and the creation of the first humans. If you study them you will find there are no contradictions between them.

There are parts of the Bible that seem to contradict each other if you don’t read them closely but if you study them you will find they agree. The fact that God wrote the Bible this way shows that he wants us to search for the truth.

The information in ancient libraries came from real minds of real people. The far more complex information in cells came from the far more intelligent mind of God.
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18-01-2016, 10:25 AM
RE: Three creation accounts
Yes, Goat wrote the Bible.
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18-01-2016, 10:29 AM
RE: Three creation accounts
Good God, man. Have you not graduated to Nostradamus yet?

#sigh
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18-01-2016, 10:39 AM
RE: Three creation accounts
(18-01-2016 10:19 AM)theophilus Wrote:  ...
search for the truth.

Whereas the real truth comes from a much older culture:

According to ancient Thai mythology, Than is the Spirit of the Sky who first created everything. Before this, there was nothing on Earth—no humans, animals, or plants—as well as no Sun or Moon. Than brought a bottle gourd (hollow fruit) to Earth, then pierced it until it opened. Five types of human beings came out, and all were brothers and sisters. Than instructed them in the ways of life and gave them tools to make a living.

Why people do not understand this to be the truth is beyond me.

Huh

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18-01-2016, 12:01 PM
RE: Three creation accounts
Just a few points:

*God(s) creating something out of nothing was a common thread in many religions at this time.

*Other nearby cultures also had *their* gods setting up the universe/earth/creation, and people being created by gods using clay and blood (similar to dust/rib with Adam and Eve).

*The creation story in Genesis has many parallels to the Enuma Elish (Babylonian epic) which is older than the Bible.

*The scholarly reasoning for light created before sun/moon/stars is because the belief at this time was that light was a separate entity--it existed in addition to sun/moon/stars.

Citation: The IVP Bible Background Commentary by Walton, Matthews, & Chavalas.

I like the Hindu story of creation. Also, ancient Hindu cosmology was far more advanced than any "science" you would find in the Bible.



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18-01-2016, 12:22 PM
RE: Three creation accounts
(18-01-2016 10:19 AM)theophilus Wrote:  The fact that God wrote the Bible this way shows that he wants us to search for the truth.

Strange then that there are so many versions of it???

Let alone inherent contradictions.

If God wrote it he was a lousy author.

The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike
Excreta Tauri Sapientam Fulgeat (The excrement of the bull causes wisdom to flee)
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18-01-2016, 12:26 PM
RE: Three creation accounts
(18-01-2016 12:22 PM)Silly Deity Wrote:  
(18-01-2016 10:19 AM)theophilus Wrote:  The fact that God wrote the Bible this way shows that he wants us to search for the truth.

Strange then that there are so many versions of it???

Let alone inherent contradictions.

If God wrote it he was a lousy author.

Right--and He left us in charge of searching for the truth and attempting to decipher an otherworldly being's words. Us--mere mortals. And of course, if we fuck up in deciphering them--we're screwed. It always seemed odd to me that a being so intent on communicating to us in the written word would be so unclear in his message to the point where humans have to justify his intent.
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18-01-2016, 12:28 PM
RE: Three creation accounts
(18-01-2016 10:19 AM)theophilus Wrote:  Many critics of the Bible claim that it begins with two contradictory creation accounts. They say that chapter 1 describes a six day creation in which plants and animals are created before humans and chapter 2 describes the creation of plants and animals after the first human was created.

Actually the first two chapters of the Bible contain three creation accounts and if you study them carefully you will find there are no contradictions between them.

The first account is Genesis 1:1.

Quote:In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

We learn from this that God created everything. The next verse begins the account of how the earth was created.

Quote:The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

This is followed by a period of six days in which God created the earth and a seventh day on which he rested. In this time it was only the earth that was created, not the rest of the universe. The belief that God created the universe during this time is based on a misunderstanding of what God did the fourth day.

Quote:And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years, and let them be lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth.” And it was so.

And God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars. And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening and there was morning, the fourth day.
Genesis 1:14-19 ESV

It says that God placed lights in the sky. It does not say that he created the bodies that produced the lights at this time. This section begins with the earth in complete darkness. This darkness was probably the result of a cloud cover over the earth that kept any light from reaching it. On the first day, when God said, “Let there be light,” the cloud cover thinned enough so that light could reach the earth but sun itself couldn’t be seen. On the fourth day God removed the clouds completely so that the sun, moon, and stars could be seen. For more about this subject, read this:

https://clydeherrin.wordpress.com/2014/0...-universe/

Man was created on the sixth day. The account of how the earth was created is followed by a detailed account of his creation. It begins with these words:

Quote:When no bush of the field was yet in the land and no small plant of the field had yet sprung up—for the LORD God had not caused it to rain on the land, and there was no man to work the ground, and a mist was going up from the land and was watering the whole face of the ground—then the LORD God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature.
Genesis 2:5-7 ESV

Some see a contradiction between the statement that no plant of the field had been created and the previous statement that God created plants on the third day. The reference to plants of the field only means that God had not yet created those plants that require human effort for their cultivation. And the creation of animals is mentioned after the creation of man but it isn’t clearly stated just when that creation took place.

Quote:Now out of the ground the LORD God had formed every beast of the field and every bird of the heavens and brought them to the man to see what he would call them. And whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name.
Genesis 2:19 ESV

Chapter 1 describes the creation of the earth in chronological order. Chapter 2 focuses on the creation of man and other parts of the creation are mentioned when they affect man.

The Bible begins with three creation accounts: the creation of the universe, the creation of the earth, and the creation of the first humans. If you study them you will find there are no contradictions between them.

There are parts of the Bible that seem to contradict each other if you don’t read them closely but if you study them you will find they agree. The fact that God wrote the Bible this way shows that he wants us to search for the truth.
Holy shit we sure glad we had you to clear this stuff up for us. Too many people try to believe what it says without having anyone to explain it to them. If God wanted people to understand it why didn't he put it more straightforward! What a nut.
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18-01-2016, 12:33 PM
RE: Three creation accounts
(18-01-2016 12:26 PM)jennybee Wrote:  
(18-01-2016 12:22 PM)Silly Deity Wrote:  Strange then that there are so many versions of it???

Let alone inherent contradictions.

If God wrote it he was a lousy author.

Right--and He left us in charge of searching for the truth and attempting to decipher an otherworldly being's words. Us--mere mortals. And of course, if we fuck up in deciphering them--we're screwed. It always seemed odd to me that a being so intent on communicating to us in the written word would be so unclear in his message to the point where humans have to justify his intent.

Maybe he's just a dick who takes pleasure in punishing those who fail to divine correct meaning from his intentionally unclearly written book? Wink

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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18-01-2016, 12:56 PM
RE: Three creation accounts
(18-01-2016 10:19 AM)theophilus Wrote:  Many critics of the Bible claim that it begins with two contradictory creation accounts. They say that chapter 1 describes a six day creation in which plants and animals are created before humans and chapter 2 describes the creation of plants and animals after the first human was created.

Actually the first two chapters of the Bible contain three creation accounts and if you study them carefully you will find there are no contradictions between them.

The first account is Genesis 1:1.

Quote:In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

We learn from this that God created everything. The next verse begins the account of how the earth was created.

Quote:The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

This is followed by a period of six days in which God created the earth and a seventh day on which he rested. In this time it was only the earth that was created, not the rest of the universe. The belief that God created the universe during this time is based on a misunderstanding of what God did the fourth day.

Quote:And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years, and let them be lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth.” And it was so.

And God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars. And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening and there was morning, the fourth day.
Genesis 1:14-19 ESV

It says that God placed lights in the sky. It does not say that he created the bodies that produced the lights at this time. This section begins with the earth in complete darkness. This darkness was probably the result of a cloud cover over the earth that kept any light from reaching it. On the first day, when God said, “Let there be light,” the cloud cover thinned enough so that light could reach the earth but sun itself couldn’t be seen. On the fourth day God removed the clouds completely so that the sun, moon, and stars could be seen. For more about this subject, read this:

https://clydeherrin.wordpress.com/2014/0...-universe/

Man was created on the sixth day. The account of how the earth was created is followed by a detailed account of his creation. It begins with these words:

Quote:When no bush of the field was yet in the land and no small plant of the field had yet sprung up—for the LORD God had not caused it to rain on the land, and there was no man to work the ground, and a mist was going up from the land and was watering the whole face of the ground—then the LORD God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature.
Genesis 2:5-7 ESV

Some see a contradiction between the statement that no plant of the field had been created and the previous statement that God created plants on the third day. The reference to plants of the field only means that God had not yet created those plants that require human effort for their cultivation. And the creation of animals is mentioned after the creation of man but it isn’t clearly stated just when that creation took place.

Quote:Now out of the ground the LORD God had formed every beast of the field and every bird of the heavens and brought them to the man to see what he would call them. And whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name.
Genesis 2:19 ESV

Chapter 1 describes the creation of the earth in chronological order. Chapter 2 focuses on the creation of man and other parts of the creation are mentioned when they affect man.

The Bible begins with three creation accounts: the creation of the universe, the creation of the earth, and the creation of the first humans. If you study them you will find there are no contradictions between them.

There are parts of the Bible that seem to contradict each other if you don’t read them closely but if you study them you will find they agree. The fact that God wrote the Bible this way shows that he wants us to search for the truth.

Genesis 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

Genesis 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forthabundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Genesis 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.


This is a blatant contradiction that apologists can't weasel out of.

All of the other things you mention are contradictions with excuses thrown in to hand wave it away.

Herrin completely made up a fairy tale about god removing clouds to make your bible sound more sensible than it really is. He has zero scripture to support that.

This is why apologists are liars, they just make shit up and then declare you haven't studied it right if you don't see what they see.

In this case "studying" means going to apologists sites and copy pasting what they say about the bible's goofy myths.

Let's interject some actual science here instead of insipid creationists fantasies, it takes light over ten thousand years to come from the core of the sun to it's surface before it makes the 8 minute travel time to Earth.

How does this square with any biblical myth that asserts that the sun was made on the 4th day? We would be waiting thousands of years before the first photon reached Earth if it was created 6,000 years ago.

The bible is as blatantly mythical as it gets in Genesis, from the assertion of a day to create the sun and the stars, to talking snakes, to world-wide floods to supernatural origination of languages.

It as preposterous as you can get, yet here you are defending this fairy tale. Most Christians dismiss it as mere metaphor, you might consider their wisdom in this matter.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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