Three creation accounts
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18-01-2016, 05:03 PM
RE: Three creation accounts
(18-01-2016 10:19 AM)theophilus Wrote:  This is followed by a period of six days in which God created the earth and a seventh day on which he rested. In this time it was only the earth that was created, not the rest of the universe. The belief that God created the universe during this time is based on a misunderstanding of what God did the fourth day.

Quote:And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years, and let them be lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth.” And it was so.

And God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars. And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening and there was morning, the fourth day.
Genesis 1:14-19 ESV

It says that God placed lights in the sky. It does not say that he created the bodies that produced the lights at this time.

Yes, it does. See the bits that I've put in bold. God quite clearly creates the sun, moon and stars on Day 4.

Quote:This section begins with the earth in complete darkness. This darkness was probably the result of a cloud cover over the earth that kept any light from reaching it.

Aside from lacking any basis in fact, scripture or drunken rambling this line of "reasoning" has one itty-bitty flaw.

The Bible Wrote:And God saw that it was good.

So God AllMighty can't see through cloud cover? Really makes you wonder about the whole omniscience/omnipotence thing.

Next time try and understand the apologetics that you're going to copy-N-paste at us.

---
Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
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18-01-2016, 07:27 PM
RE: Three creation accounts
(18-01-2016 10:19 AM)theophilus Wrote:  The fact that God wrote the Bible this way shows that he wants us to search for the truth.

You are say that god created more stars than we can ever count, created DNA - the letters of the genetic code, all of this wondrous universe, so complex that we will never understand it all.

This god, that supposedly did all this, and his method of communication is the bible. A book so riddled with contradictions and mistakes that children can see through them.

This makes sense, how?

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18-01-2016, 08:06 PM (This post was last modified: 20-01-2016 05:50 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Three creation accounts
(18-01-2016 10:19 AM)theophilus Wrote:  Many critics of the Bible claim that it begins with two contradictory creation accounts. They say that chapter 1 describes a six day creation in which plants and animals are created before humans and chapter 2 describes the creation of plants and animals after the first human was created.

Actually the first two chapters of the Bible contain three creation accounts and if you study them carefully you will find there are no contradictions between them.

The first account is Genesis 1:1.

Quote:In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

We learn from this that God created everything. The next verse begins the account of how the earth was created.

Quote:The earth was without form and void, and darkness was over the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters.

This is followed by a period of six days in which God created the earth and a seventh day on which he rested. In this time it was only the earth that was created, not the rest of the universe. The belief that God created the universe during this time is based on a misunderstanding of what God did the fourth day.

Quote:And God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night. And let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years, and let them be lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth.” And it was so.

And God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars. And God set them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, to rule over the day and over the night, and to separate the light from the darkness. And God saw that it was good. And there was evening and there was morning, the fourth day.
Genesis 1:14-19 ESV

It says that God placed lights in the sky. It does not say that he created the bodies that produced the lights at this time. This section begins with the earth in complete darkness. This darkness was probably the result of a cloud cover over the earth that kept any light from reaching it. On the first day, when God said, “Let there be light,” the cloud cover thinned enough so that light could reach the earth but sun itself couldn’t be seen. On the fourth day God removed the clouds completely so that the sun, moon, and stars could be seen. For more about this subject, read this:

https://clydeherrin.wordpress.com/2014/0...-universe/

Man was created on the sixth day. The account of how the earth was created is followed by a detailed account of his creation. It begins with these words:

Quote:When no bush of the field was yet in the land and no small plant of the field had yet sprung up—for the LORD God had not caused it to rain on the land, and there was no man to work the ground, and a mist was going up from the land and was watering the whole face of the ground—then the LORD God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature.
Genesis 2:5-7 ESV

Some see a contradiction between the statement that no plant of the field had been created and the previous statement that God created plants on the third day. The reference to plants of the field only means that God had not yet created those plants that require human effort for their cultivation. And the creation of animals is mentioned after the creation of man but it isn’t clearly stated just when that creation took place.

Quote:Now out of the ground the LORD God had formed every beast of the field and every bird of the heavens and brought them to the man to see what he would call them. And whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name.
Genesis 2:19 ESV

Chapter 1 describes the creation of the earth in chronological order. Chapter 2 focuses on the creation of man and other parts of the creation are mentioned when they affect man.

The Bible begins with three creation accounts: the creation of the universe, the creation of the earth, and the creation of the first humans. If you study them you will find there are no contradictions between them.

There are parts of the Bible that seem to contradict each other if you don’t read them closely but if you study them you will find they agree. The fact that God wrote the Bible this way shows that he wants us to search for the truth.

Genesis is an assemblage of the myths from the Northern and Southern kingdom's traditions. It's actually not a "creation' of the universe, as they had no such concept. It presumes the seas (the "deep") were already in place. It also presumes space-time. It's very similar to the Babylonian creation myth. God had nothing to do with the writing/assemblage of those texts. the Judean priests did it, in Exile. The reason they did it, was in order to re-form a cohesive society, which had been totally disrupted by the Babylonian conquests. Th Persian emperor, commanded they create a national myth and legal system as he needed a stable Israel, to serve as a buffer state, between him and the invading Greeks. It's an entirely politically motivated set of texts.

http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/...ble-Bull-s

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20-01-2016, 04:45 PM (This post was last modified: 20-01-2016 04:56 PM by Commonsensei.)
RE: Three creation accounts
OH I can do this TOO!

Quote:The World was Created from the remains of the giant Ymir. The three brothers dragged the dead body of Ymir towards the center of Ginnungagap. This is the place where they created the world from the remains of Ymir.


The three brothers were Odin, Vili, and Ve.

So you can see that the world couldn't have been created if it wasn't for Odin and his two brothers.

Quote:The blood was transformed into oceans and water.

The flesh became the land.

The bones became the mountains.

The teeth made into rocks.

The hair became the grass and trees.

The eyelashes became Midgard.

This tale tells clearly how each and every aspect of the world was formered. Odin didn't want to kill his father but a Giant troll kept conceiving New Jotuns. Threw Ymirs death his blood flooded the land kill all the Jotuns. All but two (of course) His flesh had became the land you stand on, the rocks where his teeth. What better explaination could there be? None.

Quote:They threw the brain up in the air and it became the clouds. The skull became the sky. It was the lid that covered the new world. The brothers grabbed some of the sparks shooting out from Muspelheim, the land of fire. They threw the sparks up toward the inside of the skull. These sparks gleamed at night and was what we call the stars. On the plains of Idavoll, they built Asgard, which would be the home of the gods. Very far away from Asgard, were the Jotuns allowed to live.

This shows the honor that Odin and his brothers had. Giving their greatest enemy a place to live. And wisdom to not let Ymir's body go to waste. So that you could experience life they way they wanted.

Quote:One Day Odin, Vili and Ve walked on the beach. There they found two log; one appeared to be from the Ash tree and the other appeared to come from an Elm tree.

Odin gave the logs spirit and life, Ve gave them movement, mind and intelligence and Vili gave them shape, speech, feelings and the five senses. The first two humans had been created.

The man was given the name Ask, and the woman was given the name Embla, The Aesir decided the humans should live in the place of Midgard.

Man was created on a day of peace, and leisure.


___________________________________

I skipped the opener where Ymir was formed in a void between a land of fire and Ice. And had to suck the tit of a giant ox under a tree that formed in the void. Mostly because I hoped my point would get across on this.

I also skipped the story about how the god placed the son and the moon in the sky because they were jealous that the children of a man where to beautiful to live on Midgard. (Earth)

If not this one maybe I could pull up the Egyptian Creation story. Or the Hindu. Or the great Bumba that vomited existent into the world.

Trying to bring validity to these stories only makes you into a fool.

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20-01-2016, 05:44 PM
RE: Three creation accounts
Tell it to your blog. Dodgy

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20-01-2016, 05:48 PM
RE: Three creation accounts
(18-01-2016 12:56 PM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(18-01-2016 10:19 AM)theophilus Wrote:  Many critics of the Bible claim that it begins with two contradictory creation accounts. They say that chapter 1 describes a six day creation in which plants and animals are created before humans and chapter 2 describes the creation of plants and animals after the first human was created.

Actually the first two chapters of the Bible contain three creation accounts and if you study them carefully you will find there are no contradictions between them.

The first account is Genesis 1:1.


We learn from this that God created everything. The next verse begins the account of how the earth was created.


This is followed by a period of six days in which God created the earth and a seventh day on which he rested. In this time it was only the earth that was created, not the rest of the universe. The belief that God created the universe during this time is based on a misunderstanding of what God did the fourth day.


It says that God placed lights in the sky. It does not say that he created the bodies that produced the lights at this time. This section begins with the earth in complete darkness. This darkness was probably the result of a cloud cover over the earth that kept any light from reaching it. On the first day, when God said, “Let there be light,” the cloud cover thinned enough so that light could reach the earth but sun itself couldn’t be seen. On the fourth day God removed the clouds completely so that the sun, moon, and stars could be seen. For more about this subject, read this:

https://clydeherrin.wordpress.com/2014/0...-universe/

Man was created on the sixth day. The account of how the earth was created is followed by a detailed account of his creation. It begins with these words:


Some see a contradiction between the statement that no plant of the field had been created and the previous statement that God created plants on the third day. The reference to plants of the field only means that God had not yet created those plants that require human effort for their cultivation. And the creation of animals is mentioned after the creation of man but it isn’t clearly stated just when that creation took place.


Chapter 1 describes the creation of the earth in chronological order. Chapter 2 focuses on the creation of man and other parts of the creation are mentioned when they affect man.

The Bible begins with three creation accounts: the creation of the universe, the creation of the earth, and the creation of the first humans. If you study them you will find there are no contradictions between them.

There are parts of the Bible that seem to contradict each other if you don’t read them closely but if you study them you will find they agree. The fact that God wrote the Bible this way shows that he wants us to search for the truth.

Genesis 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

Genesis 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forthabundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

Genesis 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.


This is a blatant contradiction that apologists can't weasel out of.

All of the other things you mention are contradictions with excuses thrown in to hand wave it away.

Herrin completely made up a fairy tale about god removing clouds to make your bible sound more sensible than it really is. He has zero scripture to support that.

This is why apologists are liars, they just make shit up and then declare you haven't studied it right if you don't see what they see.

In this case "studying" means going to apologists sites and copy pasting what they say about the bible's goofy myths.

Let's interject some actual science here instead of insipid creationists fantasies, it takes light over ten thousand years to come from the core of the sun to it's surface before it makes the 8 minute travel time to Earth.

How does this square with any biblical myth that asserts that the sun was made on the 4th day? We would be waiting thousands of years before the first photon reached Earth if it was created 6,000 years ago.

The bible is as blatantly mythical as it gets in Genesis, from the assertion of a day to create the sun and the stars, to talking snakes, to world-wide floods to supernatural origination of languages.

It as preposterous as you can get, yet here you are defending this fairy tale. Most Christians dismiss it as mere metaphor, you might consider their wisdom in this matter.

I think he has a MSU degree. As in Makes Shit Up!
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21-01-2016, 10:08 AM
RE: Three creation accounts
I feel obligated to point out that the OP remains suggestively silent in regards to our, IMO, eloquent refutations of the original post. Evil_monster

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Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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21-01-2016, 10:38 AM
RE: Three creation accounts
(21-01-2016 10:08 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  I feel obligated to point out that the OP remains suggestively silent in regards to our, IMO, eloquent refutations of the original post. Evil_monster

He rarely ever does. I have seen people completely rip his points apart and yet he will completely ignore those posts and yet answer a more simple one,

"If we are honest—and scientists have to be—we must admit that religion is a jumble of false assertions, with no basis in reality.
The very idea of God is a product of the human imagination."
- Paul Dirac
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21-01-2016, 11:43 AM
RE: Three creation accounts
(21-01-2016 10:38 AM)The Organic Chemist Wrote:  
(21-01-2016 10:08 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  I feel obligated to point out that the OP remains suggestively silent in regards to our, IMO, eloquent refutations of the original post. Evil_monster

He rarely ever does. I have seen people completely rip his points apart and yet he will completely ignore those posts and yet answer a more simple one,

It's the steel helmet of religion that he's worn for so long that it's welded to his skull. It protects him from all logic.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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