Tiberius Caesar
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05-04-2015, 08:44 AM
RE: Tiberius Caesar
(04-04-2015 11:13 AM)f stop Wrote:  In a "did Jesus exist" debate a theist has asked me "Do you believe Tiberius Caesar existed? If so, why?" What is the best way to answer that?

I'm tempted to answer "No. Tiberius was a character invented by Lew Wallace in the novel Ben Hur."

It is true that the bible mentions real people and real places. But the evidence is in that those things were peppered in to lend the air of credibility.

That would be like making the argument that George Washington exiting means he could fart a full sized Lamborghini out of his ass. You can go to Superman movies and see real cities depicted in them, but that does not mean Superman existed.

Jesus never existed in reality. His character was manufactured after the fact. Even in the OT the real people were added to the stories to give them the false impression that the fantastic magic claims in them were true.

The Romans of the alleged time of the Jesus character were in reality apt census takers and any upstart challenging the state would have been noticed. The reality is the first partial writings of the NT are not contemporary and the first was written 70 years after the alleged time of the Jesus character. The NT in its complete canonized form took a few hundred years more and was VOTED ON.

It still would not matter in reality if such a man existed, there still is no such thing as magic babies born of a virgin, or the idea of surviving the death story as depicted in the bible. The reality if that kind of torture would have killed you and you would not survive it.

There was a group, that started Christianity, yes otherwise it would not exist today. But the real founders were still mere men and either deluded, mistaken or flat out lying in order to sell their new religion.

No human in reality has a cosmic bat phone to a sky hero. There still is no such thing as a man/god or even a "prophet". Prior to monotheism polytheism had their words for "man/god"s and "prophets" then they called them Oracles, soothsayers, seers. But it still amounts to delusional people selling crap.

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05-04-2015, 10:11 AM
RE: Tiberius Caesar



Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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05-04-2015, 01:07 PM
RE: Tiberius Caesar
(04-04-2015 11:57 AM)KnowtheSilence Wrote:  
(04-04-2015 11:13 AM)f stop Wrote:  In a "did Jesus exist" debate a theist has asked me "Do you believe Tiberius Caesar existed? If so, why?" What is the best way to answer that?

I'm tempted to answer "No. Tiberius was a character invented by Lew Wallace in the novel Ben Hur."

He's probably setting up for something like the "10/42 apologetic," which claims that there are more historical sources for Jesus than Tiberius.

Matthew Ferguson destroys this argument here.

FANTASTIC! I'm in the middle of an online conversation with a theist over the historicity of Jesus and I neeeeeeed this link. Thanks.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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05-04-2015, 01:55 PM
RE: Tiberius Caesar
(04-04-2015 11:57 AM)KnowtheSilence Wrote:  He's probably setting up for something like the "10/42 apologetic," which claims that there are more historical sources for Jesus than Tiberius.

Matthew Ferguson destroys this argument here.
Wow, never knew that site/reference existed! Great read!

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22-08-2016, 07:27 PM
RE: Tiberius Caesar
The remake of Ben-Hur has been an abysmal failure to date, 100 million to produce, 1st week take 11 million.

Deep down I’m gratified. This was a movie specifically targeted to Christian audiences

"With no obvious age group to target, MGM and Paramount decided to pitch Ben-Hur straight at religious audiences. The film was largely advertised on Christian broadcasting networks, with the studios hoping to attract the kind of word-of-mouth hype that greeted The Passion of the Christ (which opened to an astonishing $83 million in 2004). Commercials highlighted the fact that the remake was more heavily inspired by Wallace’s book. Wyler’s 1959 film was more oblique about the character of Jesus, who was barely shown onscreen. But Bekmambetov’s version sees the Brazilian star Rodrigo Santoro in a much-expanded version of the Christ role, for which he sought and received a blessing from Pope Francis.”
http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment...picks=true

This comes on the heels of the mega-flop Noah’s Ark theme park

“A $100 million attraction that brings in a mere 5,000 people a day, when there’s more publicity about the Ark than they’ll ever see again, doesn’t bode well for its future.”
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyath...-expected/

Perhaps this is the tell that the younger generations just don’t give a shit about religion. I sincerely hope so.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
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22-08-2016, 07:54 PM
RE: Tiberius Caesar
Quote:Deep down I’m gratified. This was a movie specifically targeted to Christian audiences

The sub-title of Wallace's novel was "A Tale of the Christ." Not, "A Tale of A Chariot Racing Jew Boy."


Xtians would never go for that.

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22-08-2016, 07:56 PM
RE: Tiberius Caesar
(22-08-2016 07:54 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  
Quote:Deep down I’m gratified. This was a movie specifically targeted to Christian audiences

The sub-title of Wallace's novel was "A Tale of the Christ." Not, "A Tale of A Chariot Racing Jew Boy."


Xtians would never go for that.

They didn’t go for this one either this time around.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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22-08-2016, 08:16 PM
RE: Tiberius Caesar
(05-04-2015 08:10 AM)Cornelia Wrote:  Something I find quite hilarious about Christians of any persuasion - Their desperation to prove the historical veracity of anything in the bible. If any of it turns out to have written or some other form of archaeological evidence it merely demonstrates that the various bible authors are not entirely devoid of the ability to write history - it certainly isn't proof of any god or his offspring.

So what if Yeshua did exist? Prove he was the son of god. A divine being. Not faith. Not belief. Actual proof.

Whether the existence of any other historical personality can be proved conclusively has absolutely no relevance to the claims of divinity made for Jesus.
It isn't His divinity that Christians should be focused on when speaking to skeptics, it is the teachings and selflessness for the sake of all life.

The divinity issue had almost blinded all it seems, from the actual point.

Pride, fear, and greed.
The source of atrocities, and the poker that puts out the eyes.

Peace

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22-08-2016, 10:12 PM
RE: Tiberius Caesar
(22-08-2016 08:16 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  It isn't His divinity that Christians should be focused on when speaking to skeptics, it is the teachings and selflessness for the sake of all life.

The divinity issue had almost blinded all it seems, from the actual point.

Pride, fear, and greed.
The source of atrocities, and the poker that puts out the eyes.

Peace

What is the difference between the teachings of Jesus and Buddha?

If from day one the character Jesus would have been a wise teacher like Buddha with no other baggage attached non of the subsequent hoopla would have ensued.

Claiming divinity is not the same as saying the guy had brown hair or was six feet tall, those things are irrelevant to his teachings. But no, Christians claim that he is divine so of course that’s what people will focus on.

“Look, there is Jesus, he is a wise teacher and by the way, he can also fly, walk on water, and come back from the dead...but lets just focus on his teachings for now shall we?” Seriously?

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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22-08-2016, 10:36 PM
RE: Tiberius Caesar
(22-08-2016 10:12 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(22-08-2016 08:16 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  It isn't His divinity that Christians should be focused on when speaking to skeptics, it is the teachings and selflessness for the sake of all life.

The divinity issue had almost blinded all it seems, from the actual point.

Pride, fear, and greed.
The source of atrocities, and the poker that puts out the eyes.

Peace

What is the difference between the teachings of Jesus and Buddha?

If from day one the character Jesus would have been a wise teacher like Buddha with no other baggage attached non of the subsequent hoopla would have ensued.

Claiming divinity is not the same as saying the guy had brown hair or was six feet tall, those things are irrelevant to his teachings. But no, Christians claim that he is divine so of course that’s what people will focus on.

“Look, there is Jesus, he is a wise teacher and by the way, he can also fly, walk on water, and come back from the dead...but lets just focus on his teachings for now shall we?” Seriously?
I'm sorry but you aren't making too much sense; Jesus was a wise teacher, and he didn't go around saying he was the One Creator GOD of all existence, according to scripture anyway. Also; the trinity doctrine is what attempted to establish the co-equal divinity of GOD and the Christ or the anointed of GOD though such isn't stated in scripture. It is sort-of asserted by the apostles, but the Christ never said "I am the Father". So I really don't get why you are acting like someone you apparently don't even think existed screwed up by asserting he was God, which He didn't do.

That's all.


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