Tiberius Caesar
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29-08-2016, 05:40 AM
RE: Tiberius Caesar
(29-08-2016 05:11 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  What the f dude... The only two commands that were given


Love God with all your being

Love your neighbor as yourself.

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According to:
Ephesians 6:5-6
1 Timothy 6:1-2
Colossians 4:1
this seems not to be mutually exclusive with having slaves.

Are you claiming those three books of the bible to be wrong? Or do you rather want to keep ignoring them? They were after all the *bugfix* for the OT. Dont tell me the bugfix needs another bugfix? Talking about the OT, which clearly condones slavery. Did God change his mind on slavery before he send jesus?

So why did Jesus never clearly say (or even act) anything against slavery? He surely had enough time to talk about lots of other random shit, like selling stuff in the temple (which is a far more important topic than slavery, right?).

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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29-08-2016, 08:06 AM
RE: Tiberius Caesar
(04-04-2015 11:13 AM)f stop Wrote:  In a "did Jesus exist" debate a theist has asked me "Do you believe Tiberius Caesar existed? If so, why?" What is the best way to answer that?

I'm tempted to answer "No. Tiberius was a character invented by Lew Wallace in the novel Ben Hur."

He likely didn't exist, since we have no videos of him.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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29-08-2016, 08:30 AM
RE: Tiberius Caesar
(29-08-2016 08:06 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(04-04-2015 11:13 AM)f stop Wrote:  In a "did Jesus exist" debate a theist has asked me "Do you believe Tiberius Caesar existed? If so, why?" What is the best way to answer that?

I'm tempted to answer "No. Tiberius was a character invented by Lew Wallace in the novel Ben Hur."

He likely didn't exist, since we have no videos of him.

That’s funny right there. I’d like to see that guy around more often.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
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29-08-2016, 09:59 AM
RE: Tiberius Caesar
At work.

(29-08-2016 08:06 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(04-04-2015 11:13 AM)f stop Wrote:  In a "did Jesus exist" debate a theist has asked me "Do you believe Tiberius Caesar existed? If so, why?" What is the best way to answer that?

I'm tempted to answer "No. Tiberius was a character invented by Lew Wallace in the novel Ben Hur."

He likely didn't exist, since we have no videos of him.

Laugh out load

+1

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29-08-2016, 10:48 AM
RE: Tiberius Caesar
(29-08-2016 05:06 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Every one can butch and moan all they want.

Jesus, the perfect messenger of GOD had two commands

Both of which would instantly negate slavery for any who abided by those two commands.

It's that simple.

You cannot both love others as yourself and torture them.

You cannot love GOD and not follow the narrow path, giving up want for self.

Having slaves is want for self or greed, and not being loving to your neighbor. Effectively breaking the two commands.

So no rightly guided individual would have slaves then or now.



Peace



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God could of made it an abomination if he didn't want to have people under his rule and moral guidence doing that.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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29-08-2016, 12:10 PM
RE: Tiberius Caesar
(23-08-2016 12:39 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
(22-08-2016 08:16 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  It isn't His divinity that Christians should be focused on when speaking to skeptics, it is the teachings and selflessness for the sake of all life.

Like when he said that slaves should obey their masters even when they are bad masters?

Slave owners normally feel that way!

Atheism is NOT a Religion. It's A Personal Relationship With Reality!
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30-08-2016, 05:13 AM
RE: Tiberius Caesar
(29-08-2016 05:16 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(29-08-2016 05:06 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Every one can butch and moan all they want.

You can butch all you like as far as I'm concerned.

Quote:Jesus, the perfect messenger of GOD had two commands

We don't know with certainty that Jesus existed. We definitely don't know anything he actually said if he did exist. The NT is all hearsay.

Quote:Both of which would instantly negate slavery for any who abided by those two commands.

In your opinion and your interpretation of the text.

Quote:You cannot love GOD and not follow the narrow path, giving up want for self.

In your opinion and according to your interpretation.

Quote:Having slaves is want for self or greed, and not being loving to your neighbor. Effectively breaking the two commands.

In your opinion and according to your interpretation.

Quote:So no rightly guided individual would have slaves then or now.

In your opinion and according to your interpretation.

Let's have the evidence that your Jesus existed and actually said the things you claim that he said.
Regardless of if the man actually lived or not; the teachings; as in the two commands noted are of truth, and indeed negate all negativity if abided by. That isn't opinion, it is common sense.

Peace

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30-08-2016, 05:14 AM
RE: Tiberius Caesar
(29-08-2016 10:48 AM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(29-08-2016 05:06 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Every one can butch and moan all they want.

Jesus, the perfect messenger of GOD had two commands

Both of which would instantly negate slavery for any who abided by those two commands.

It's that simple.

You cannot both love others as yourself and torture them.

You cannot love GOD and not follow the narrow path, giving up want for self.

Having slaves is want for self or greed, and not being loving to your neighbor. Effectively breaking the two commands.

So no rightly guided individual would have slaves then or now.



Peace



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God could of made it an abomination if he didn't want to have people under his rule and moral guidence doing that.
I'm sorry; I didn't quite grasp what it was you were trying to convey.

Would you reword it please?

Thanks

Peace

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30-08-2016, 05:32 AM
RE: Tiberius Caesar
(30-08-2016 05:13 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Regardless of if the man actually lived or not; the teachings; as in the two commands noted are of truth, and indeed negate all negativity if abided by. That isn't opinion, it is common sense.

IN YOUR OPINION

You do realize that the bible was used by slaveholders to justify slavery, right?
You do understand that the bible explicitly tells slaves to obey their masters, right?
You know that "love your neighbors" can be read to mean only other Jews, right?

Your reading of the text is not the only one and you have no more justification for your interpretation than anybody else does.

You are cherry-picking the things you like and ignoring the fact that the bible can be interpreted many different ways to support a wide variety of positions. Saying that "love your neighbors" negates slavery may be an interpretation that I would agree is better than many others doesn't mean that it is what was intended by the author or that it is the only way to read it.

You aren't getting morality from your scripture, you are accepting the scriptures that you think agree with what you already believe.

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30-08-2016, 06:28 AM
RE: Tiberius Caesar
(30-08-2016 05:32 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(30-08-2016 05:13 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Regardless of if the man actually lived or not; the teachings; as in the two commands noted are of truth, and indeed negate all negativity if abided by. That isn't opinion, it is common sense.

IN YOUR OPINION

You do realize that the bible was used by slaveholders to justify slavery, right?
You do understand that the bible explicitly tells slaves to obey their masters, right?
You know that "love your neighbors" can be read to mean only other Jews, right?

Your reading of the text is not the only one and you have no more justification for your interpretation than anybody else does.

You are cherry-picking the things you like and ignoring the fact that the bible can be interpreted many different ways to support a wide variety of positions. Saying that "love your neighbors" negates slavery may be an interpretation that I would agree is better than many others doesn't mean that it is what was intended by the author or that it is the only way to read it.

You aren't getting morality from your scripture, you are accepting the scriptures that you think agree with what you already believe.
Yes it has been interpreted many different ways in part, but as a whole work and in likeness to similar works, it can only be competently and accurately interpreted in one way.

Sure, any can claim, nonsensically, that GOD is evil, rather than man is evil. They can take out of context and twist things to fit their motives, as humans have a great talent for such. But again, one must consider these things. It is one thing to say there is no physical evidence for GOD; it is wholly another to posit that GOD is evil. Getting off topic.... That's for another, more adequate time.

My main point is that if read along with other core scripture, the interpretation would become easier to see. As they do all agree yet are too different.

I agree that scripture agrees with my perception or view. This would be a given in any case, but even more so due to my particular circumstance. That experience that happened is indeed the initial test or likeness I seek out and it has helped immensely in finding what is of that singular accord, that beneficent, simple, truth that permeates all existence.

Whoops... Woo overload?

Uhm...it isn't confirmation bias when it is actually true...what I speak of verifies not only what I had already been shown, but the direction of all core writings of the messengers or prophets. You can say that too is confirmation bias, just not justifiably so.

I do thank you for nearly admitting that the interpretation I presented was better than some others, but better isn't what I am striving for; truth is. God is not some distant separate person floating around. It is the Spirit of Life that is in all creation or existence.

Peace

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