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02-10-2012, 07:20 AM
RE: Time
(02-10-2012 03:52 AM)I and I Wrote:  If we as a culture believe that pearl harbor happened then yes we as a culture are retroactively examining it through past memories of others written downand placing meaning on those recollections.

So now, she's not even differentiating between a single brain, and cultural knowledge. She has said there is no time, yet uses a past temporal reference, ("retroactive"), to refer TO the actual time, which she has stated does not exist. A person who's father or mother, DIED at Pearl knows it happened. It's not "cultural knowledge", It's PERSONAL knowledge. (Fallacy of the False Analogy.) No one "chose" anything. The family member was absent.

I know what retroactively means. How about YOU define your term. Maybe that would help you. I doubt it.

(02-10-2012 03:52 AM)I and I Wrote:  And I am not saying that things didn't happen or exist in the past,

Great, then YOU accept that there is time. Do you even know what the word "past" signifies, in the English language ?

(02-10-2012 03:52 AM)I and I Wrote:  What an event is, differs according to philosopher and is a whole different topic.

No it isn't FAIL. The fact that you refuse to examine the question YOURSELF, (without reading YOUR Bible), proves you can't think for yourself.

(02-10-2012 03:52 AM)I and I Wrote:  I thought it was common knowledge that philosophers had far more advanced notions of time than the 1700's quantum physicists.

There were no Quantum Physicists in the 1700.
Since you just made a statement that is ridiculous in the extreme, this is over, and every other person who reads this, except you, in your deluded, uneducated state, (just as a believer is), will understand that either you are purposely trolling, or just beyond help.

The fact that you admit there even was a "1700", yet deny actual time, proves you have no idea what you are talking about, or what the word "time" means when you say it, or even what you mean to signify when you say it does not really exist.

You need help.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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02-10-2012, 09:19 AM
RE: AW: Time
(01-10-2012 02:27 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  No it isn't. The Higgs Boson is the particle which arises from the Higgs Field, and it is what imparts mass.

That would be the physical properties of "change."

Humanism - ontological doctrine that posits that humans define reality
Theism - ontological doctrine that posits a supernatural entity creates and defines reality
Atheism - political doctrine opposed to theist doctrine in public policy
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02-10-2012, 09:26 AM
RE: AW: Time
(02-10-2012 09:19 AM)TrainWreck Wrote:  
(01-10-2012 02:27 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  No it isn't. The Higgs Boson is the particle which arises from the Higgs Field, and it is what imparts mass.

That would be the physical properties of "change."

No. E = mc^2, while proven, is not "necessary". Mass is not change.
Are you two related ? Big GrinWeeping

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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02-10-2012, 09:27 AM
RE: AW: Time
(02-10-2012 09:19 AM)TrainWreck Wrote:  
(01-10-2012 02:27 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  No it isn't. The Higgs Boson is the particle which arises from the Higgs Field, and it is what imparts mass.

That would be the physical properties of "change."

Maybe in trainwreckland... Dodgy

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02-10-2012, 10:30 AM
RE: Time
(02-10-2012 07:20 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(02-10-2012 03:52 AM)I and I Wrote:  If we as a culture believe that pearl harbor happened then yes we as a culture are retroactively examining it through past memories of others written downand placing meaning on those recollections.

So now, she's not even differentiating between a single brain, and cultural knowledge. She has said there is no time, yet uses a past temporal reference, ("retroactive"), to refer TO the actual time, which she has stated does not exist. A person who's father or mother, DIED at Pearl knows it happened. It's not "cultural knowledge", It's PERSONAL knowledge. (Fallacy of the False Analogy.) No one "chose" anything. The family member was absent.

I know what retroactively means. How about YOU define your term. Maybe that would help you. I doubt it.

(02-10-2012 03:52 AM)I and I Wrote:  And I am not saying that things didn't happen or exist in the past,

Great, then YOU accept that there is time. Do you even know what the word "past" signifies, in the English language ?

(02-10-2012 03:52 AM)I and I Wrote:  What an event is, differs according to philosopher and is a whole different topic.

No it isn't FAIL. The fact that you refuse to examine the question YOURSELF, (without reading YOUR Bible), proves you can't think for yourself.

(02-10-2012 03:52 AM)I and I Wrote:  I thought it was common knowledge that philosophers had far more advanced notions of time than the 1700's quantum physicists.

There were no Quantum Physicists in the 1700.
Since you just made a statement that is ridiculous in the extreme, this is over, and every other person who reads this, except you, in your deluded, uneducated state, (just as a believer is), will understand that either you are purposely trolling, or just beyond help.

The fact that you admit there even was a "1700", yet deny actual time, proves you have no idea what you are talking about, or what the word "time" means when you say it, or even what you mean to signify when you say it does not really exist.

You need help.


You seem to be confusing the statements "time is a human concept" and "objects/events are human mental constructs"

I have no fucking clue where you get the idea that I ever said or implied things don't exist or happen outside our minds and have no clue why you keep refuting something I never said.


Of course Pearl Harbor happened you fuck head, and it doesn't have the same meaning or significance to every culture, do you understand that fuckhead, was pearl harbor an event to cavemen? FUCK NO, that means that how humans label events and place them in a particular meaning and order ( FUCKING TIME) is based on human minds.

How humans situate/place importance on/and call events are purely dependent on the society that one grows up in.

During the 80's the U.S. gave Saddam Hussein chemical and biological weapons to use against Iran in a war. Hussein then uses these weapons thereby making the U.S. war criminals and forever causing hate for Americans in Iran. To most stupid americans is isn't an "event" to most Iranians it is. HOW (read that word HOW) humans situate and place events as more important or less important in a linear construct in their heads is the very fucking way that time is a concept used to help humans make sense of events and things.

Again this idiot fuckball is going to think that I am saying that things didn't exist when I have never said or implied such a thing.


Time does not exist independent of humand minds, things and places do. What is so hard to understand about that?

Did you pray to your time god today? because he does exist out there in woo woo ville outside human minds according to you right?
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02-10-2012, 10:37 AM
RE: Time
(02-10-2012 10:30 AM)I and I Wrote:  
(02-10-2012 07:20 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  So now, she's not even differentiating between a single brain, and cultural knowledge. She has said there is no time, yet uses a past temporal reference, ("retroactive"), to refer TO the actual time, which she has stated does not exist. A person who's father or mother, DIED at Pearl knows it happened. It's not "cultural knowledge", It's PERSONAL knowledge. (Fallacy of the False Analogy.) No one "chose" anything. The family member was absent.

I know what retroactively means. How about YOU define your term. Maybe that would help you. I doubt it.


Great, then YOU accept that there is time. Do you even know what the word "past" signifies, in the English language ?


No it isn't FAIL. The fact that you refuse to examine the question YOURSELF, (without reading YOUR Bible), proves you can't think for yourself.


There were no Quantum Physicists in the 1700.
Since you just made a statement that is ridiculous in the extreme, this is over, and every other person who reads this, except you, in your deluded, uneducated state, (just as a believer is), will understand that either you are purposely trolling, or just beyond help.

The fact that you admit there even was a "1700", yet deny actual time, proves you have no idea what you are talking about, or what the word "time" means when you say it, or even what you mean to signify when you say it does not really exist.

You need help.


You seem to be confusing the statements "time is a human concept" and "objects/events are human mental constructs"

I have no fucking clue where you get the idea that I ever said or implied things don't exist or happen outside our minds and have no clue why you keep refuting something I never said.


Of course Pearl Harbor happened you fuck head, and it doesn't have the same meaning or significance to every culture, do you understand that fuckhead, was pearl harbor an event to cavemen? FUCK NO, that means that how humans label events and place them in a particular meaning and order ( FUCKING TIME) is based on human minds.

How humans situate/place importance on/and call events are purely dependent on the society that one grows up in.

During the 80's the U.S. gave Saddam Hussein chemical and biological weapons to use against Iran in a war. Hussein then uses these weapons thereby making the U.S. war criminals and forever causing hate for Americans in Iran. To most stupid americans is isn't an "event" to most Iranians it is. HOW (read that word HOW) humans situate and place events as more important or less important in a linear construct in their heads is the very fucking way that time is a concept used to help humans make sense of events and things.

Again this idiot fuckball is going to think that I am saying that things didn't exist when I have never said or implied such a thing.


Time does not exist independent of humand minds, things and places do. What is so hard to understand about that?

Did you pray to your time god today? because he does exist out there in woo woo ville outside human minds according to you right?

Time is one dimension of the four-dimensional space-time in which we exist. Are you denying the existence of the other three dimensions except as mental constructs?

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-10-2012, 10:39 AM (This post was last modified: 02-10-2012 11:02 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Time
(02-10-2012 10:30 AM)I and I Wrote:  
(02-10-2012 07:20 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  So now, she's not even differentiating between a single brain, and cultural knowledge. She has said there is no time, yet uses a past temporal reference, ("retroactive"), to refer TO the actual time, which she has stated does not exist. A person who's father or mother, DIED at Pearl knows it happened. It's not "cultural knowledge", It's PERSONAL knowledge. (Fallacy of the False Analogy.) No one "chose" anything. The family member was absent.

I know what retroactively means. How about YOU define your term. Maybe that would help you. I doubt it.


Great, then YOU accept that there is time. Do you even know what the word "past" signifies, in the English language ?


No it isn't FAIL. The fact that you refuse to examine the question YOURSELF, (without reading YOUR Bible), proves you can't think for yourself.


There were no Quantum Physicists in the 1700.
Since you just made a statement that is ridiculous in the extreme, this is over, and every other person who reads this, except you, in your deluded, uneducated state, (just as a believer is), will understand that either you are purposely trolling, or just beyond help.

The fact that you admit there even was a "1700", yet deny actual time, proves you have no idea what you are talking about, or what the word "time" means when you say it, or even what you mean to signify when you say it does not really exist.

You need help.


You seem to be confusing the statements "time is a human concept" and "objects/events are human mental constructs"

I have no fucking clue where you get the idea that I ever said or implied things don't exist or happen outside our minds and have no clue why you keep refuting something I never said.


Of course Pearl Harbor happened you fuck head, and it doesn't have the same meaning or significance to every culture, do you understand that fuckhead, was pearl harbor an event to cavemen? FUCK NO, that means that how humans label events and place them in a particular meaning and order ( FUCKING TIME) is based on human minds.

How humans situate/place importance on/and call events are purely dependent on the society that one grows up in.

During the 80's the U.S. gave Saddam Hussein chemical and biological weapons to use against Iran in a war. Hussein then uses these weapons thereby making the U.S. war criminals and forever causing hate for Americans in Iran. To most stupid americans is isn't an "event" to most Iranians it is. HOW (read that word HOW) humans situate and place events as more important or less important in a linear construct in their heads is the very fucking way that time is a concept used to help humans make sense of events and things.

Again this idiot fuckball is going to think that I am saying that things didn't exist when I have never said or implied such a thing.


Time does not exist independent of humand minds, things and places do. What is so hard to understand about that?

Did you pray to your time god today? because he does exist out there in woo woo ville outside human minds according to you right?

No bitch.
So tell us what exactly IS the difference between the statements "time is a human concept" and "objects/events are human mental constructs.
You conveniently evaded your own question.
I proved to you that time is more than what exists in human minds, because the people who demonstrated the Relativistic effects of relative speed had in front of the TWO DIFFERENT clocks. If time were only a concept in a human mind, the clocks would, obviously read the SAME thing, to the same person. You're just too much of a god damn fucking moron to know what that means. Your idiocy has also been demonstrated in your many mis-statements, and linguistic errors, and lack of knowledge of science and history. Are you a reject from some Philosophy board. Did you come here, becasue you got banned somewhere, or other real philosophers don't buy any of your crap ? You have made an incredibly poor introduction of yourself here. There is no reason for anyone here to accept anything you say has any rational content. Until you explain why the 2 clocks show 2 different things, I, and everyone else here, will go with what 99.9999999999 % of all other rational people on the planet Earth accept as reality today.
So, dear, go fuck yourself. Oh wait. You can't. That would require time. Dodgy

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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02-10-2012, 12:15 PM
RE: Time
(02-10-2012 10:39 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(02-10-2012 10:30 AM)I and I Wrote:  You seem to be confusing the statements "time is a human concept" and "objects/events are human mental constructs"

I have no fucking clue where you get the idea that I ever said or implied things don't exist or happen outside our minds and have no clue why you keep refuting something I never said.


Of course Pearl Harbor happened you fuck head, and it doesn't have the same meaning or significance to every culture, do you understand that fuckhead, was pearl harbor an event to cavemen? FUCK NO, that means that how humans label events and place them in a particular meaning and order ( FUCKING TIME) is based on human minds.

How humans situate/place importance on/and call events are purely dependent on the society that one grows up in.

During the 80's the U.S. gave Saddam Hussein chemical and biological weapons to use against Iran in a war. Hussein then uses these weapons thereby making the U.S. war criminals and forever causing hate for Americans in Iran. To most stupid americans is isn't an "event" to most Iranians it is. HOW (read that word HOW) humans situate and place events as more important or less important in a linear construct in their heads is the very fucking way that time is a concept used to help humans make sense of events and things.

Again this idiot fuckball is going to think that I am saying that things didn't exist when I have never said or implied such a thing.


Time does not exist independent of humand minds, things and places do. What is so hard to understand about that?

Did you pray to your time god today? because he does exist out there in woo woo ville outside human minds according to you right?

No bitch.
So tell us what exactly IS the difference between the statements "time is a human concept" and "objects/events are human mental constructs.
You conveniently evaded your own question.
I proved to you that time is more than what exists in human minds, because the people who demonstrated the Relativistic effects of relative speed had in front of the TWO DIFFERENT clocks. If time were only a concept in a human mind, the clocks would, obviously read the SAME thing, to the same person. You're just too much of a god damn fucking moron to know what that means. Your idiocy has also been demonstrated in your many mis-statements, and linguistic errors, and lack of knowledge of science and history. Are you a reject from some Philosophy board. Did you come here, becasue you got banned somewhere, or other real philosophers don't buy any of your crap ? You have made an incredibly poor introduction of yourself here. There is no reason for anyone here to accept anything you say has any rational content. Until you explain why the 2 clocks show 2 different things, I, and everyone else here, will go with what 99.9999999999 % of all other rational people on the planet Earth accept as reality today.
So, dear, go fuck yourself. Oh wait. You can't. That would require time. Dodgy

is a clock time itself or a representation of/method of measuring something we call time?
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02-10-2012, 12:41 PM
RE: Time
(01-10-2012 01:27 AM)bemore Wrote:  The reason behind my last statement is simply an observation of this thread from my personal point of view.

People will "vehemently" defend their belief systems.... that is why insults and name calling are coming into the debate.... thats why I mentioned it, just an observation from a neutral perspective.

And especially with the hypocrisy, it's actually kind of embarrassing; maybe in general, disregarding the specific cases also present, that's just my own fault for applying attributes to atheism beyond the scope of it's definition. This is a group I'm proud to be a part of but feel should represent the exact opposite of what is being displayed at times, if not regularly.

And it's not just the name calling. Name calling is something I might have less of a problem with. It's the let's be dogmatic, let's throw logic and objectivity completely out the window and let's assume our position to be true in order to prove it, attitude. It's the fanaticism and lack of wisdom, that have me constantly looking down at my signature and wondering why, out of all places, that's the case here too. I realize why and I understand the quote, but it's still tough to accept.

The Paradox Of Fools And Wise Men:
“The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser men so full of doubts.” ― Bertrand Russell
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02-10-2012, 12:49 PM
RE: Time
(02-10-2012 10:37 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(02-10-2012 10:30 AM)I and I Wrote:  You seem to be confusing the statements "time is a human concept" and "objects/events are human mental constructs"

I have no fucking clue where you get the idea that I ever said or implied things don't exist or happen outside our minds and have no clue why you keep refuting something I never said.


Of course Pearl Harbor happened you fuck head, and it doesn't have the same meaning or significance to every culture, do you understand that fuckhead, was pearl harbor an event to cavemen? FUCK NO, that means that how humans label events and place them in a particular meaning and order ( FUCKING TIME) is based on human minds.

How humans situate/place importance on/and call events are purely dependent on the society that one grows up in.

During the 80's the U.S. gave Saddam Hussein chemical and biological weapons to use against Iran in a war. Hussein then uses these weapons thereby making the U.S. war criminals and forever causing hate for Americans in Iran. To most stupid americans is isn't an "event" to most Iranians it is. HOW (read that word HOW) humans situate and place events as more important or less important in a linear construct in their heads is the very fucking way that time is a concept used to help humans make sense of events and things.

Again this idiot fuckball is going to think that I am saying that things didn't exist when I have never said or implied such a thing.


Time does not exist independent of humand minds, things and places do. What is so hard to understand about that?

Did you pray to your time god today? because he does exist out there in woo woo ville outside human minds according to you right?

Time is one dimension of the four-dimensional space-time in which we exist. Are you denying the existence of the other three dimensions except as mental constructs?

no, they do exist (as time does) as methods in which we as beings with minds understand and relate to the world.

It's like asking if love exists, yes as an idea that most humans throughout history have used to relate to each other but does it exist as some "thing" outside humanity that we can sense through the 5 senses? no

Modern science is stuck in the Cartesian subject philosophy and philosophers throughout time have pointed this out. You guys believe that there is 1. A perception of time and B. Another Time that exists beyond this perception.

Philosophy has moved beyond that notion and proven Descartes and Kant wrong by basically pointing out the fact that there is no way to possibly step outside of your own person hood to access this "reality". This does not mean that there is no real tree or building, this just means that how we perceive and understand the world is always going to be based on our way of perceiving and understanding things which are learned culturally (everything we know we learned from society around us).

So if one states that Time exists beyond our perception then they are basically saying that there is no way to access this "real time" which means one is saying x exists and then saying they can never prove that x exists. This is logically wrong no matter what one believes in, whether it's a christian saying that about a god, a parent saying that about Santa, or someone saying that about time.

Reality IS THE PROCESS in which the mind relates to the outside physical world by use of concepts, ideologies, beliefs, recollections, memories etc etc. that are themselves influenced by the particular environment we grow up in.

There is no separation of perception and reality, perception of real objects is part of the real experience and shapes our reality.

Again this perception does not originate from the individual subject (that would be what the bleep woo woo), it originates from the outside culture that shapes perceptions in which the individual goes about understanding things.

Example: We understand 9-11 in a different way than people in other countries do or people 100 years from now will.
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