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24-09-2012, 10:59 PM (This post was last modified: 24-09-2012 11:02 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Time
(24-09-2012 10:50 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(24-09-2012 10:44 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Well, then you misstated your thread. You said "time", not "the perception of time". They are two entirely different things. If you wanted to discuss the perception of time, you should have stated it as such.

I just said time because some people believe that it is an entity that exists somewhere....some people do not, which would make a good philosophical debate.

How time is an entity that exists somewhere i have yet to see any evidence.

I just gave you some. As I said, you need to take a Physics class.

http://www.pitt.edu/~jdnorton/teaching/H...index.html
http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/relea...092310.cfm

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist & Levitating Yogi
John 15:16 : "You did not choose me, I chose you, so that you might go and bear fruit--fruit that will last"

Lots of fruits in beligion.
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24-09-2012, 11:08 PM
RE: Time
(24-09-2012 10:59 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(24-09-2012 10:50 PM)I and I Wrote:  I just said time because some people believe that it is an entity that exists somewhere....some people do not, which would make a good philosophical debate.

How time is an entity that exists somewhere i have yet to see any evidence.

I just gave you some. As I said, you need to take a Physics class.

http://www.pitt.edu/~jdnorton/teaching/H...index.html
http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/relea...092310.cfm


The links you post are papers that are already based on the idea that time is an entity outside human consciousness. If I state that time is based on the easter bunny, then go about assembling facts around this initial statement without ever adressing the initial statements validity that the facts are situated around, that is a very flawed philosophical method and can barely be called scientific.
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24-09-2012, 11:11 PM
RE: Time
(24-09-2012 11:08 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(24-09-2012 10:59 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I just gave you some. As I said, you need to take a Physics class.

http://www.pitt.edu/~jdnorton/teaching/H...index.html
http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/relea...092310.cfm


The links you post are papers that are already based on the idea that time is an entity outside human consciousness. If I state that time is based on the easter bunny, then go about assembling facts around this initial statement without ever adressing the initial statements validity that the facts are situated around, that is a very flawed philosophical method and can barely be called scientific.

Speaking of "time" from a philosophical standpoint, we are having a good ole 1700's style discussion.
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24-09-2012, 11:12 PM
RE: Time
(24-09-2012 11:08 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(24-09-2012 10:59 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I just gave you some. As I said, you need to take a Physics class.

http://www.pitt.edu/~jdnorton/teaching/H...index.html
http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/relea...092310.cfm


The links you post are papers that are already based on the idea that time is an entity outside human consciousness. If I state that time is based on the easter bunny, then go about assembling facts around this initial statement without ever adressing the initial statements validity that the facts are situated around, that is a very flawed philosophical method and can barely be called scientific.

I don't give a damn about your philosophy. I have PROVEN that time does NOT exist just in your head. You can stomp your foot, and insist people play in your philosophy yard, just like religionists do, from now 'till kingdom come. I have PROVEN that time exists apart from your mind, empirically. There IS a physical world. If you deny it, as you are doing, then you're wasting your time. Go do your woo-woo in a church.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist & Levitating Yogi
John 15:16 : "You did not choose me, I chose you, so that you might go and bear fruit--fruit that will last"

Lots of fruits in beligion.
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24-09-2012, 11:22 PM
RE: Time
(24-09-2012 11:12 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(24-09-2012 11:08 PM)I and I Wrote:  The links you post are papers that are already based on the idea that time is an entity outside human consciousness. If I state that time is based on the easter bunny, then go about assembling facts around this initial statement without ever adressing the initial statements validity that the facts are situated around, that is a very flawed philosophical method and can barely be called scientific.

I don't give a damn about your philosophy. I have PROVEN that time does NOT exist just in your head. You can stomp your foot, and insist people play in your philosophy yard, just like religionists do, from now 'till kingdom come. I have PROVEN that time exists apart from your mind, empirically. There IS a physical world. If you deny it, as you are doing, then you're wasting your time. Go do your woo-woo in a church.

It's not my philosophy, it's old school philosophy from a few hundred years ago...

If time is some physical entity that exists in magical never never land as you are stating, then how does this physical entity come to influence our brains? (gets popcorn)
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24-09-2012, 11:29 PM (This post was last modified: 24-09-2012 11:57 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Time
(24-09-2012 11:22 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(24-09-2012 11:12 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I don't give a damn about your philosophy. I have PROVEN that time does NOT exist just in your head. You can stomp your foot, and insist people play in your philosophy yard, just like religionists do, from now 'till kingdom come. I have PROVEN that time exists apart from your mind, empirically. There IS a physical world. If you deny it, as you are doing, then you're wasting your time. Go do your woo-woo in a church.

It's not my philosophy, it's old school philosophy from a few hundred years ago...

If time is some physical entity that exists in magical never never land as you are stating, then how does this physical entity come to influence our brains? (gets popcorn)

I didn't say it's a "physical entity". It's a "property", or a dimension, of this universe. Physics does not know yet what time is, exactly. They may when quantum gravity is understood. They may not. But the FACT that motion and relative speed alters the clock, relative to the other, PROVES it is not just in your head. Do you know what those words mean ? I did not say it is in a never never land. One clock is on the Earth, one was in motion, relative to the Earth.

That is an entirely DIFFERENT matter than your perception of time. You either can't get it, or .... are you trolling here ?

Einstein proved, that there is no "time". It's called spacetime, since he wrote his papers on Relativity. Spacetime exists. If you deny time you deny space.
Every GPS system in use today, is adjusted for the fact that Relativity accurately predicts the relative DIFFERENCES in spacetime, secondary to relative speed, and position. If you think THAT physical reality is just a construct of you brain, good luck.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist & Levitating Yogi
John 15:16 : "You did not choose me, I chose you, so that you might go and bear fruit--fruit that will last"

Lots of fruits in beligion.
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25-09-2012, 12:02 AM
RE: Time
(24-09-2012 11:29 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(24-09-2012 11:22 PM)I and I Wrote:  It's not my philosophy, it's old school philosophy from a few hundred years ago...

If time is some physical entity that exists in magical never never land as you are stating, then how does this physical entity come to influence our brains? (gets popcorn)

I didn't say it's a "physical entity". It's a "property". Physics does not know yet what time is, exactly. They may when quantum gravity is understood. They may not. But the FACT that motion and relative speed alters the clock, relative to the other, PROVES it is not just in your head. Do you know what those words mean ? I did not say it is in a never never land. One clock is on the Earth, one was in motion, relative to the Earth.

That is an entirely DIFFERENT problem than your perception of time. You either can't get it, or .... are you trolling here ?

Einstein proved, that there is no "time". It's called spacetime, since he wrote his papers on Relativity. Spacetime exists. If you deny time you deny space.

Right, Philosophy has had a theory of what time is and isn't for a few hundred years, again proves my point that philosophy is much more advanced than science. What humans call time is the result of different methods of past/present/future which is how we as humans "tell time" "measure time" "have a history" "have memories" "gain understanding and knowledge". Science uses these same methods of measuring the notion of time. Philosophy questions the very ideas and things we use to measure "time". A clock isn't "time" nor is it a representation of "time" we assign memories retroactively with a time device like a clock, the clock is a measure of time only retroactively as is our notion of time in general. (memories).

If you are working on a house and then you look up at the clock to notice the time, you used this device to help you relate yourself to your surroundings by retroactively realizing that x time has passed. The clock is not the representation of time, your understanding of that gap in your existence is measured by or understood as "time".
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25-09-2012, 12:04 AM
RE: Time
(25-09-2012 12:02 AM)I and I Wrote:  
(24-09-2012 11:29 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I didn't say it's a "physical entity". It's a "property". Physics does not know yet what time is, exactly. They may when quantum gravity is understood. They may not. But the FACT that motion and relative speed alters the clock, relative to the other, PROVES it is not just in your head. Do you know what those words mean ? I did not say it is in a never never land. One clock is on the Earth, one was in motion, relative to the Earth.

That is an entirely DIFFERENT problem than your perception of time. You either can't get it, or .... are you trolling here ?

Einstein proved, that there is no "time". It's called spacetime, since he wrote his papers on Relativity. Spacetime exists. If you deny time you deny space.

Right, Philosophy has had a theory of what time is and isn't for a few hundred years, again proves my point that philosophy is much more advanced than science. What humans call time is the result of different methods of past/present/future which is how we as humans "tell time" "measure time" "have a history" "have memories" "gain understanding and knowledge". Science uses these same methods of measuring the notion of time. Philosophy questions the very ideas and things we use to measure "time". A clock isn't "time" nor is it a representation of "time" we assign memories retroactively with a time device like a clock, the clock is a measure of time only retroactively as is our notion of time in general. (memories).

If you are working on a house and then you look up at the clock to notice the time, you used this device to help you relate yourself to your surroundings by retroactively realizing that x time has passed. The clock is not the representation of time, your understanding of that gap in your existence is measured by or understood as "time".

and what is a property vs a physical entity according to science?
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25-09-2012, 12:16 AM
RE: Time
(24-09-2012 11:29 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Every GPS system in use today, is adjusted for the fact that Relativity accurately predicts the relative DIFFERENCES in spacetime, secondary to relative speed, and position.

i had no idea about that. Totally awesome. Bowing

This explanation helped me understand the process a little better.

Religious disputes are like arguments in a madhouse over which inmate really is Napoleon.
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25-09-2012, 12:28 AM
RE: Time
(25-09-2012 12:02 AM)I and I Wrote:  
(24-09-2012 11:29 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I didn't say it's a "physical entity". It's a "property". Physics does not know yet what time is, exactly. They may when quantum gravity is understood. They may not. But the FACT that motion and relative speed alters the clock, relative to the other, PROVES it is not just in your head. Do you know what those words mean ? I did not say it is in a never never land. One clock is on the Earth, one was in motion, relative to the Earth.

That is an entirely DIFFERENT problem than your perception of time. You either can't get it, or .... are you trolling here ?

Einstein proved, that there is no "time". It's called spacetime, since he wrote his papers on Relativity. Spacetime exists. If you deny time you deny space.

Right, Philosophy has had a theory of what time is and isn't for a few hundred years, again proves my point that philosophy is much more advanced than science. What humans call time is the result of different methods of past/present/future which is how we as humans "tell time" "measure time" "have a history" "have memories" "gain understanding and knowledge". Science uses these same methods of measuring the notion of time. Philosophy questions the very ideas and things we use to measure "time". A clock isn't "time" nor is it a representation of "time" we assign memories retroactively with a time device like a clock, the clock is a measure of time only retroactively as is our notion of time in general. (memories).

If you are working on a house and then you look up at the clock to notice the time, you used this device to help you relate yourself to your surroundings by retroactively realizing that x time has passed. The clock is not the representation of time, your understanding of that gap in your existence is measured by or understood as "time".

Apparently you don't know much about Philosophy. Philosophers have been discussing time for at least 3,000 years, NOT a few hundred years. Philosophy's relative position to Science is irrelevant. Don't change the subject. I have just proven to you that time is something, and not just a perception. You still don't get that you are conflating two different things. It's doesn't matter how we measure it. Whatever it is, it exists, as SPACETIME. Do you believe space exists ? Did Philosophy predict Relativity ? Hardly. So much for your theory of Philosophy being better than Science. Did Philosophy predict Uncertainty ? Did Philosophy predict antibiotics, heart surgery, clean water, Dirac spinors ? Give me a break.

What humans call time is the result of the Second Law of Thermodynamics, (Entropy).

No one said a clock is time, or a representation of time. Humans use it to MEASURE time, whatever it is. If it's measuring *something*, then the *something* exists. Is it measuring nothing ? Your saying "assigning memories retroactively" PROVES YOU believe in time, or there would BE no "retroactively". If there are "memories", and they are not "present" reality, it PROVES *something* has happened. Your clock and working on the house thing is irrelevant. YOUR PERCEPTION of spacetime, IS NOT spacetime. We know it is incorrect, but that is irrelevant.

Have a nice snack of philosophy.
I'm done here.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist & Levitating Yogi
John 15:16 : "You did not choose me, I chose you, so that you might go and bear fruit--fruit that will last"

Lots of fruits in beligion.
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