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26-09-2012, 11:04 AM
RE: Time
here is an example of a philosophers definition of time today. I disagree a little with deleuze but here is an example of what time is to modern philosophy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po78dF40mrk It starts at the 6:30 mark.
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26-09-2012, 11:53 AM (This post was last modified: 26-09-2012 12:50 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Time
(24-09-2012 10:44 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Well, then you misstated your thread. You said "time", not "the perception of time". They are two entirely different things. If you wanted to discuss the perception of time, you should have stated it as such. There is no debate about the misperception.

And I simply restate the obvious. He's not talking about "time". He and you, are talking about the "perception" of time. They are two entirely different matters. And since you have proven yourself incompetent to deal with spacetime, in any other way than "Philosophical time", you should edit your thread title to accurately reflect what you are talking about.

And since "philosophical time" has you relegated to a small corner of the problem in general, you may wish to learn what some real Nero-scientists are doing in the field, as opposed to your woo woo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pla...yMJkFB0CHY
http://www.frontiersin.org/consciousness...00106/full
http://web.gc.cuny.edu/cogsci/private/Ha...ark-CC.pdf

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist
Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things" (KJV)

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26-09-2012, 12:39 PM
RE: Time
(26-09-2012 10:29 AM)I and I Wrote:  
(26-09-2012 06:56 AM)Chas Wrote:  There is nothing magical. Time is one of the dimensions of space-time. It exists independently of us.

If it exists independently of us, then there are only 5 ways we humans can experience things outside of us and that is through the 5 senses. As far as I know nobody has ever seen time, tasted time, smelled time, touched time or heard time.

My point and most philosophers point out back in the 1700's and 1800's on til today is that time is a concept with which we use to understand the world around us, space is too only space can be understood even by animals without minds, time requires a thinking mind. They are what philosophers call a priori, which in philosophical terms means shit that you learned so early in life you don't know it's original origin. Time requires a thinking human mind because our notion of time is based on memory, understanding of memory, thinking outside of the situation etc etc. We humans can sit on a computer and theorize about the past, what it means, what it is going to mean, all of this gives us this sense of time. Example: when you remember being attacked by a tiger, the memory doesn't scare you because your brain already has a concept of time (past-present-future) and knows that it is not happening now and that it happened in the past. Humans can even use time to plan in advance for things.

It is not only humans who have a sense of time.

I think you keep confusing perception with existence. Time exists just like the three dimensions of space; motion occurs through the four dimensions of spac-time and does not require our perception of it for it to occur.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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26-09-2012, 01:34 PM
RE: Time
(26-09-2012 11:53 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(24-09-2012 10:44 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Well, then you misstated your thread. You said "time", not "the perception of time". They are two entirely different things. If you wanted to discuss the perception of time, you should have stated it as such. There is no debate about the misperception.

And I simply restate the obvious. He's not talking about "time". He and you, are talking about the "perception" of time. They are two entirely different matters. And since you have proven yourself incompetent to deal with spacetime, in any other way than "Philosophical time", you should edit your thread title to accurately reflect what you are talking about.

And since "philosophical time" has you relegated to a small corner of the problem in general, you may wish to learn what some real Nero-scientists are doing in the field, as opposed to your woo woo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pla...yMJkFB0CHY
http://www.frontiersin.org/consciousness...00106/full
http://web.gc.cuny.edu/cogsci/private/Ha...ark-CC.pdf

Wait:

My belief is that time is a concept (not a thing or property) formed in the human mind and not an external thing or property.

Your belief is that time exists outside of (independent of) humanity somewhere and it's so magical that we can't prove it is out there but somehow know it's out there somewhere in the great beyond. That is fucking woo to the fucking woo. That is some religious nut job bullshit. That is bullshit



God is made up stuff in peoples heads as is time. Now please proceed with proving there is a god like eternal omnipresent invisible force that is all around us. (gets popcorn)


You are probably one of those new age woo woo types that worship quantum mechanics.....watch this.

Hey what did you think about the movie What The Bleep Do We Know?
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26-09-2012, 01:42 PM
RE: Time
(26-09-2012 01:34 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(26-09-2012 11:53 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  And I simply restate the obvious. He's not talking about "time". He and you, are talking about the "perception" of time. They are two entirely different matters. And since you have proven yourself incompetent to deal with spacetime, in any other way than "Philosophical time", you should edit your thread title to accurately reflect what you are talking about.

And since "philosophical time" has you relegated to a small corner of the problem in general, you may wish to learn what some real Nero-scientists are doing in the field, as opposed to your woo woo.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pla...yMJkFB0CHY
http://www.frontiersin.org/consciousness...00106/full
http://web.gc.cuny.edu/cogsci/private/Ha...ark-CC.pdf

Wait:

My belief is that time is a concept (not a thing or property) formed in the human mind and not an external thing or property.

Your belief is that time exists outside of (independent of) humanity somewhere and it's so magical that we can't prove it is out there but somehow know it's out there somewhere in the great beyond. That is fucking woo to the fucking woo. That is some religious nut job bullshit. That is bullshit



God is made up stuff in peoples heads as is time. Now please proceed with proving there is a god like eternal omnipresent invisible force that is all around us. (gets popcorn)


You are probably one of those new age woo woo types that worship quantum mechanics.....watch this.

Hey what did you think about the movie What The Bleep Do We Know?

I have proven, with the two clocks that time is *something*, and not just in my head. That is empirically demonstrated. That, (as your strawman asserts), is NOT in the "great beyond. Einstein have proven that SPACEtime, (which your fucking Philosophy FAILED to notice), is real, and exists. I have already demonstrated time. You are just too fucking stupid to get it. Bye bye. And BTW, "new-age" woo-woo types that worship Quantum Mechanics ? Got that right bitch. Just like 99.99 % of the Physicists on Planet Earth.

There' s a stall next to Madame Zelda, and her crystal ball, on the promenade, in Malibu, for you to set up your stall. You can maybe charge $.01 for a reading.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist
Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things" (KJV)

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26-09-2012, 02:08 PM
RE: Time
(26-09-2012 12:39 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(26-09-2012 10:29 AM)I and I Wrote:  If it exists independently of us, then there are only 5 ways we humans can experience things outside of us and that is through the 5 senses. As far as I know nobody has ever seen time, tasted time, smelled time, touched time or heard time.

My point and most philosophers point out back in the 1700's and 1800's on til today is that time is a concept with which we use to understand the world around us, space is too only space can be understood even by animals without minds, time requires a thinking mind. They are what philosophers call a priori, which in philosophical terms means shit that you learned so early in life you don't know it's original origin. Time requires a thinking human mind because our notion of time is based on memory, understanding of memory, thinking outside of the situation etc etc. We humans can sit on a computer and theorize about the past, what it means, what it is going to mean, all of this gives us this sense of time. Example: when you remember being attacked by a tiger, the memory doesn't scare you because your brain already has a concept of time (past-present-future) and knows that it is not happening now and that it happened in the past. Humans can even use time to plan in advance for things.

It is not only humans who have a sense of time.

I think you keep confusing perception with existence. Time exists just like the three dimensions of space; motion occurs through the four dimensions of spac-time and does not require our perception of it for it to occur.

what other living things have a sense of time? To be honest it isn't possible to know whether or not a chicken has a sense of time however it is possible to study brains and know that a chickens brain lacks most of the capabilities of our brain can do, so the logical conclusion is that chickens don't have a sense of time. As far as we know, the only living things that have and use memory, contemplation on things in the past or present, can plan for things or ponder things that might happen long in the future etc etc are humans.

Time exists like love does, they are concepts that have very real results especially when all humans have the capactity to use that concept of time, it isn't a property that is outside of humans that influence humans like objects do.
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26-09-2012, 02:10 PM
RE: Time
(26-09-2012 01:42 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(26-09-2012 01:34 PM)I and I Wrote:  Wait:

My belief is that time is a concept (not a thing or property) formed in the human mind and not an external thing or property.

Your belief is that time exists outside of (independent of) humanity somewhere and it's so magical that we can't prove it is out there but somehow know it's out there somewhere in the great beyond. That is fucking woo to the fucking woo. That is some religious nut job bullshit. That is bullshit



God is made up stuff in peoples heads as is time. Now please proceed with proving there is a god like eternal omnipresent invisible force that is all around us. (gets popcorn)


You are probably one of those new age woo woo types that worship quantum mechanics.....watch this.

Hey what did you think about the movie What The Bleep Do We Know?

I have proven, with the two clocks that time is *something*, and not just in my head. That is empirically demonstrated. That, (as your strawman asserts), is NOT in the "great beyond. Einstein have proven that SPACEtime, (which your fucking Philosophy FAILED to notice), is real, and exists. I have already demonstrated time. You are just too fucking stupid to get it. Bye bye. And BTW, "new-age" woo-woo types that worship Quantum Mechanics ? Got that right bitch. Just like 99.99 % of the Physicists on Planet Earth.

There' s a stall next to Madame Zelda, and her crystal ball, on the promenade, in Malibu, for you to set up your stall. You can maybe charge $.01 for a reading.


So you believe in that What The Bleep documentary that was made by a cult leader?
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26-09-2012, 02:12 PM
RE: Time
(26-09-2012 02:08 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(26-09-2012 12:39 PM)Chas Wrote:  It is not only humans who have a sense of time.

I think you keep confusing perception with existence. Time exists just like the three dimensions of space; motion occurs through the four dimensions of spac-time and does not require our perception of it for it to occur.

what other living things have a sense of time? To be honest it isn't possible to know whether or not a chicken has a sense of time however it is possible to study brains and know that a chickens brain lacks most of the capabilities of our brain can do, so the logical conclusion is that chickens don't have a sense of time. As far as we know, the only living things that have and use memory, contemplation on things in the past or present, can plan for things or ponder things that might happen long in the future etc etc are humans.

Time exists like love does, they are concepts that have very real results especially when all humans have the capactity to use that concept of time, it isn't a property that is outside of humans that influence humans like objects do.

Your conclusion on chickens does not logically follow.

And you are still confusing a sense of time with the dimension of time.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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26-09-2012, 02:26 PM
RE: Time
(26-09-2012 02:12 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(26-09-2012 02:08 PM)I and I Wrote:  what other living things have a sense of time? To be honest it isn't possible to know whether or not a chicken has a sense of time however it is possible to study brains and know that a chickens brain lacks most of the capabilities of our brain can do, so the logical conclusion is that chickens don't have a sense of time. As far as we know, the only living things that have and use memory, contemplation on things in the past or present, can plan for things or ponder things that might happen long in the future etc etc are humans.

Time exists like love does, they are concepts that have very real results especially when all humans have the capactity to use that concept of time, it isn't a property that is outside of humans that influence humans like objects do.

Your conclusion on chickens does not logically follow.

And you are still confusing a sense of time with the dimension of time.


what are some non-human things that have a sense of time?
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26-09-2012, 02:29 PM
RE: Time
(26-09-2012 02:26 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(26-09-2012 02:12 PM)Chas Wrote:  Your conclusion on chickens does not logically follow.

And you are still confusing a sense of time with the dimension of time.


what are some non-human things that have a sense of time?

Any animal that can put together a sequence of actions can be said to have a sense of time, e.g. dogs, dolphins, elephants, chimps, ravens, ...

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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