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26-09-2012, 03:25 PM
RE: Time
(26-09-2012 10:29 AM)I and I Wrote:  Example: when you remember being attacked by a tiger, the memory doesn't scare you because your brain already has a concept of time (past-present-future) and knows that it is not happening now and that it happened in the past.

Actually studies have shown that when recalling memories of certain events the brain (and body) can go through the same proccess as when the event occured.

Thats like when you recall a happy memory... and it makes you smile.... when by your reasoning it shouldnt... so whats making you happy???

Fears that could be called "irrational"... yet to the person they all feel very real.... stem from somewhere (past events of experience)

I dont think there is any arguement that "time" isnt tangible... as in that you can touch, taste, see, hear or feel it.... but then gravity is the same.

Both however... can be used scientifically to measure (and combined by einstein).... so in a sense we make them "real".

Quantum physics new age mumbo jumbo Consider

Lol... say that to fissions face and see what happens.

For no matter how much I use these symbols, to describe symptoms of my existence.
You are your own emphasis.
So I say nothing.

-Bemore.
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26-09-2012, 04:21 PM (This post was last modified: 26-09-2012 08:16 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Time
(26-09-2012 02:29 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(26-09-2012 02:26 PM)I and I Wrote:  what are some non-human things that have a sense of time?

Any animal that can put together a sequence of actions can be said to have a sense of time, e.g. dogs, dolphins, elephants, chimps, ravens, ...

Some apes use a sequence of 5 tools, in order, and only in an order which works to produce the desired outcome. Clearly they understand "sequence", or "one after the other", (a primitive sense of time).

The famous Evolution researcher J.S. Wagener, in 1987, (who's major interest was debunking Free Will)

http://www.springerlink.com/content/k8135p1042167323/

"The sense of time, in humans at least, is located in the basal ganglia and the parietal lobe of the cortex (Rao, Mayer and Harrington, 2001), rather than in the cerebellum or the hippocampus, both of which are involved in the timing of motor sequences, timing being not at all the same thing as measured time. This is consistent with a late evolutionary arrival of the awareness of time, but doesn't of itself imply that it is limited to humans. Suddendorf and Corballis (2008) argue convincingly that there is no evidence for what they term 'mental time travel' in animals other than humans; but they conflate the ability to imagine oneself 'not now' with a sense of time; again, this supports the idea that a sense of time may be a uniquely human attribute, but leaves open the possibility that other animals can imagine themselves in situations other than the present, and plan accordingly. As Suddendorf and Corballis note, the cacheing behaviour of some birds, including the use of deception, suggests fairly strongly that they have an understanding of how other birds are going to behave. Emery and Clayton (2001) showed that scrub-jays re-cache food if they have been observed cacheing it – but only if they themselves had previously stolen food. Roberts et al (2008) have also shown that rats remember the fact of having stored food, but cannot place that knowledge in relation to a time-scale. Wagener (1987) accepted that apes can imagine themselves in future ('not now') situations, but suggested that humans' ability to measure the flow of time evolved among hunter-gatherer bands and was linked with the emerging language facility. "

From :

http://www.agenthuman.com/product/evolut...ality.html

Obviously a sense of time, and perception are not the same thing, in any way, as the spacetime of Physics.

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27-09-2012, 06:38 PM
RE: Time
(26-09-2012 02:29 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(26-09-2012 02:26 PM)I and I Wrote:  what are some non-human things that have a sense of time?

Any animal that can put together a sequence of actions can be said to have a sense of time, e.g. dogs, dolphins, elephants, chimps, ravens, ...

That would be time according to the observer (us). How exactly do you know that animals can think to themselves about past actions and plan in the future or even think about time like we are doing now? A thinking mind is required to have any sense of time especially the time you guys are talking about.
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27-09-2012, 06:42 PM
RE: Time
(26-09-2012 04:21 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(26-09-2012 02:29 PM)Chas Wrote:  Any animal that can put together a sequence of actions can be said to have a sense of time, e.g. dogs, dolphins, elephants, chimps, ravens, ...

Some apes use a sequence of 5 tools, in order, and only in an order which works to produce the desired outcome. Clearly they understand "sequence", or "one after the other", (a primitive sense of time).

The famous Evolution researcher J.S. Wagener, in 1987, (who's major interest was debunking Free Will)

http://www.springerlink.com/content/k8135p1042167323/

"The sense of time, in humans at least, is located in the basal ganglia and the parietal lobe of the cortex (Rao, Mayer and Harrington, 2001), rather than in the cerebellum or the hippocampus, both of which are involved in the timing of motor sequences, timing being not at all the same thing as measured time. This is consistent with a late evolutionary arrival of the awareness of time, but doesn't of itself imply that it is limited to humans. Suddendorf and Corballis (2008) argue convincingly that there is no evidence for what they term 'mental time travel' in animals other than humans; but they conflate the ability to imagine oneself 'not now' with a sense of time; again, this supports the idea that a sense of time may be a uniquely human attribute, but leaves open the possibility that other animals can imagine themselves in situations other than the present, and plan accordingly. As Suddendorf and Corballis note, the cacheing behaviour of some birds, including the use of deception, suggests fairly strongly that they have an understanding of how other birds are going to behave. Emery and Clayton (2001) showed that scrub-jays re-cache food if they have been observed cacheing it – but only if they themselves had previously stolen food. Roberts et al (2008) have also shown that rats remember the fact of having stored food, but cannot place that knowledge in relation to a time-scale. Wagener (1987) accepted that apes can imagine themselves in future ('not now') situations, but suggested that humans' ability to measure the flow of time evolved among hunter-gatherer bands and was linked with the emerging language facility. "

From :

http://www.agenthuman.com/product/evolut...ality.html

Obviously a sense of time, and perception are not the same thing, in any way, as the spacetime of Physics.

A sense of Time requires a thinking mind because it means it is the act of counting, reasoning, logic, memory etc etc. all of the things a thinking mind (human brain) has.
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27-09-2012, 06:47 PM (This post was last modified: 27-09-2012 09:42 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Time
(27-09-2012 06:38 PM)I and I Wrote:  
(26-09-2012 02:29 PM)Chas Wrote:  Any animal that can put together a sequence of actions can be said to have a sense of time, e.g. dogs, dolphins, elephants, chimps, ravens, ...

That would be time according to the observer (us). How exactly do you know that animals can think to themselves about past actions and plan in the future or even think about time like we are doing now? A thinking mind is required to have any sense of time especially the time you guys are talking about.

Before h. Sapiens developed the brain capacity to perceive time, countless gazillions of "events", T1 -> infinity, "happened". That is TOTALLY independent from the, (in time), perception of the process, and the discovery that space-time is a continuum. If someone is outside my door, and I don't perceive him there, he is still there. Essentially, you are saying, he is not there, unless I perceive him.

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27-09-2012, 08:59 PM
RE: Time
Fucking Bucky. For a smart guy, your grammar sucks ass. Just sayin'. Angel

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27-09-2012, 09:06 PM
RE: Time
(25-09-2012 12:28 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  What humans call time is the result of the Second Law of Thermodynamics, (Entropy).

Which answers the question.

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27-09-2012, 10:11 PM
RE: Time
(27-09-2012 08:59 PM)houseofcantor Wrote:  Fucking Bucky. For a smart guy, your grammar sucks ass. Just sayin'. Angel

Well, then I guess there hope for me yet. Tongue
Pot, meet kettle.
How do I get inta prophet school ? Angel

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28-09-2012, 01:49 AM
RE: Time
(27-09-2012 06:47 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(27-09-2012 06:38 PM)I and I Wrote:  That would be time according to the observer (us). How exactly do you know that animals can think to themselves about past actions and plan in the future or even think about time like we are doing now? A thinking mind is required to have any sense of time especially the time you guys are talking about.

Before h. Sapiens developed the brain capacity to perceive time, countless gazillions of "events", T1 -> infinity, "happened". That is TOTALLY independent from the, (in time), perception of the process, and the discovery that space-time is a continuum. If someone is outside my door, and I don't perceive him there, he is still there. Essentially, you are saying, he is not there, unless I perceive him.

no, I am not saying that objects or events don't happen without a human observer, I am saying that time is a concept which means it needs a human mind.

That what the bleep documentary...your thoughts.
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28-09-2012, 02:02 AM (This post was last modified: 29-09-2012 11:04 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Time
(28-09-2012 01:49 AM)I and I Wrote:  
(27-09-2012 06:47 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Before h. Sapiens developed the brain capacity to perceive time, countless gazillions of "events", T1 -> infinity, "happened". That is TOTALLY independent from the, (in time), perception of the process, and the discovery that space-time is a continuum. If someone is outside my door, and I don't perceive him there, he is still there. Essentially, you are saying, he is not there, unless I perceive him.

no, I am not saying that objects or events don't happen without a human observer, I am saying that time is a concept which means it needs a human mind.

That what the bleep documentary...your thoughts.

Time IS a "concept in a human mind". That's not all it is.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein Certified Ancient Astronaut Theorist
Political skeptic .. if there is a bad reason something bad might have happened, you can bet your ass, that's why it happened.
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