Time for changes in US Military policy
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11-11-2014, 09:19 PM
RE: Time for changes in US Military policy
In general I think we need to pay more attention to what Thucydides had to say.

Quote:“It is a common mistake in going to war to begin at the wrong end, to act first, and wait for disaster to discuss the matter.”
―Thucydides


Sure as shit sums up the Bush administration in a nutshell.....emphasis on the "nut."

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11-11-2014, 10:11 PM (This post was last modified: 11-11-2014 10:35 PM by yakherder.)
RE: Time for changes in US Military policy
I agree that the treaty should be scrapped and Japan should make moves to bolster its military.

And they're not as naive as people might assume. Japan's helicopter carriers are pretty badass, and the V-22 Osprey could take off from them. Wiith some modification to the deck to make it more heat resistant the F-35 could as well, assuming we ever get the damn things operational. Japan is hoping to place orders for both in 2015. They're getting back into the game, the timing is just bad. Also, China's one and only aircraft carrier is absolutely worthless. A big floating (barely) money sinkhole from which they still haven't figured out how to reliably launch aircraft. Even with the U.S. carriers gone, the U.S. still has plenty of land based aircraft on hand, and the ability to get more there quickly if needed. Japan also has its own aging force of F4s that, though obsolete, combined with our F16s are more than a deterrent for anything China might try to pull. And North Korea is like a little noisy chihuahua. For all their talk, South Korea would rip them apart with or without our help.

Though Japan doesn't currently have nuclear weapons, it has what is jokingly referred to as "nukes in the basement" in the form of everything it needs to put together nuclear weapons very quickly, including a massive stockpile of plutonium. If so inclined, it would not be a long, drawn out research process as with many other countries. Japan could go from non-nuclear to major nuclear power in as little as 6 months.

I don't see us completely separating in the near future. More likely is that Japan will become more militarized and we'll work as an alliance towards common interests.

I'm not remotely worried about China right now, not militarily anyway. In the near future, they will be a force to be reckoned with. They've got some truly impressive weaponry in development, and already in production but in short supply, ranging from upcoming stealth aircraft to rifles with grenade launchers that can detonate at pre programed distances, effectively attacking enemy personnel behind cover. Impressive shit, but it will be a long time, if ever, before even a small amount of their forces have access to that stuff and the training to use it. Right now, they're not much a of a threat beyond their own borders. They've got special operations doing anti terrorism training in South America, and they're getting ready to deploy about 700 soldiers to South Sudan, which is not typical for China. But at this point, despite their supposed threat in regards to their sheer numbers, most of those numbers are untrained and poorly equipped, and they lack the ability to project those numbers overseas due to their own lack of sea power and intel gathering capabilities beyond their borders.

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11-11-2014, 10:34 PM
RE: Time for changes in US Military policy
(11-11-2014 10:11 PM)yakherder Wrote:  I agree that the treaty should be scrapped and Japan should make moves to bolster its military.

I don't see us completely separating in the near future. More likely is that Japan will become more militarized and we'll work as an alliance towards common interests.

I'm in agreement.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
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11-11-2014, 11:43 PM
RE: Time for changes in US Military policy
(11-11-2014 10:34 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(11-11-2014 10:11 PM)yakherder Wrote:  I agree that the treaty should be scrapped and Japan should make moves to bolster its military.

I don't see us completely separating in the near future. More likely is that Japan will become more militarized and we'll work as an alliance towards common interests.

I'm in agreement.

There is one thing however that I don't think anyone has mentioned, and that is that Japan was an Axis power back in WWII. While they were defeated along with their allies, their actions during that war left lasting scars. Now while Italy and Germany have re-armed and reemerged since then, Japan hasn't; and one of the reasons why is China. While the Nazi's are remembered for their concentration camps and the persecution of particular sub-groups, they at least treated prisoners of war and those they conquered somewhat fairly. Japan on the other hand rarely ever took prisoners, often killing outright those who surrendered after being defeated. In short, the Japanese occupation of the parts of mainland China they conquered were some of the most oppressive and egregious in the entire conflict, leaving a burning resentment that lingers till today; and while both France and China are permanent Security Council members in the U.N., we owe a metric fuck ton of debt to one of them and not the other. So any attempt for Japan to re-arm itself has been met with stiff opposition from the surround Pacific community, and spearheaded by China itself; and despite popular belief to the contrary, the United States does take what China says and wants seriously.

That being said, I have no problem cutting the Pentagon budget in half and letting Japan take care of itself.

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12-11-2014, 06:38 PM
RE: Time for changes in US Military policy
(10-11-2014 11:06 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  Imo its time for the US to abandon the post WWII stance of not allowing Japan to militarize for several reasons. The most obvious one is that Japan has North Korea and China at it's doorstep and needs to be able to defend itself properly ...

China would consider that provocative and Japan would soon get a Tokyo Massacre as pay back for the Nanking Massacre. The Chinese don't soon forget and know how to hold a grudge. Their lack of militarization is exactly what's protecting their ass. WWIII would then ensue.

#sigh
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12-11-2014, 06:52 PM
RE: Time for changes in US Military policy
(11-11-2014 11:53 AM)Metazoa Zeke Wrote:  
(10-11-2014 04:38 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  I don't see how the US could turn Japan into a "bad" country, what does that even mean?

Every country america takes turns to shit.

Wat.

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12-11-2014, 07:03 PM
RE: Time for changes in US Military policy
Quote: they at least treated prisoners of war and those they conquered somewhat fairly.

Really? Want to check with the Russians on that one?

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12-11-2014, 07:15 PM
RE: Time for changes in US Military policy
(12-11-2014 07:03 PM)Minimalist Wrote:  
Quote: they at least treated prisoners of war and those they conquered somewhat fairly.

Really? Want to check with the Russians on that one?

Not just to the Russians.. there was as terrible levels of human experimentation by the Japanese done to prisoners as some of the Nazi experiments as well, but oddly it wasn't punished as severely since the data was released to the Western Govs in return for not imprisoning or executing those in charge.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bataan_Death_March

There was plenty of bad Japanese lead instances, but their culture has massively shifted; and mainly the issues or fears of them doing so again is long gone.

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12-11-2014, 07:36 PM
RE: Time for changes in US Military policy
(12-11-2014 06:38 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(10-11-2014 11:06 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  Imo its time for the US to abandon the post WWII stance of not allowing Japan to militarize for several reasons. The most obvious one is that Japan has North Korea and China at it's doorstep and needs to be able to defend itself properly ...

China would consider that provocative and Japan would soon get a Tokyo Massacre as pay back for the Nanking Massacre. The Chinese don't soon forget and know how to hold a grudge. Their lack of militarization is exactly what's protecting their ass. WWIII would then ensue.

It's not like they don't have some capabilities (Japan Self-Defense Forces) already.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan_Self-Defense_Forces
I just think that after seventy years they need to stop depending on the US carrier fleets to keep them snuggly safe at night. What happens if the US carrier fleet moves out permanently? I can't see China going full retard and occupying Hokaido do you?

"Valery Kistanov, director of the Center for the Japanese Studies at the Institute of the Far East, believes that Japanese offensive weapons could be deployed in any direction. "Of course, first of all Japanese weapons would be directed against the DPRK, and then China. Japanese missile defense system is ramping up its power due to the increasing missile and nuclear forces in China. Either way the country will continue to spend billions of dollars on the military industry. According to Japanese political analysts and politicians, it is primarily due to the situation on the Korean peninsula and growth of China's military. These two factors are considered a threat by Japan, and therefore the country will actively rearm."

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15-11-2014, 08:51 PM
RE: Time for changes in US Military policy
   

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