Time to gun shop...
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
22-09-2012, 08:08 PM
RE: Time to gun shop...
Damn you Muffs! I am not old enough to have been shooting Nazis! Hobo

I'm not anti-social. I'm pro-solitude. Sleepy
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Anjele's post
22-09-2012, 08:14 PM
RE: Time to gun shop...
(22-09-2012 08:08 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Damn you Muffs! I am not old enough to have been shooting Nazis! Hobo

Ah, there's always a vital flaw to my otherwise perfect plans.

[Image: 3cdac7eec8f6b059070d9df56f50a7ae.jpg]
Now with 40% more awesome.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes earmuffs's post
22-09-2012, 09:02 PM
RE: Time to gun shop...
(22-09-2012 07:52 PM)Anjele Wrote:  
(22-09-2012 06:54 PM)cufflink Wrote:  How would carrying a gun have helped you in dealing with this asshole? It wasn't a life-threatening situation, so even if he saw your gun, he'd know you couldn't use it.

Not being critical. I genuinely don't understand.
I couldn't see into the back windows to see if anyone else was in the SUV. Since he purposely blocked me in when I asked him if he would move so I could get out, that was an aggressive move. Then he made a phone call...to who? His helpers on the other side of the parking lot?

With a gun, I would have done the same thing in that situation, I'd call 911. However if I had been approached...seemed he was trying to pin me there, why, I don't know but I don't think it was for a chat...NO, he doesn't know I wouldn't have used it. Alone, at night, pinned in purposely...if approached, I would shoot.

And here in Texas, you are really a dumb ass if you think someone that points a gun at you won't shoot. Male or female.

I didn't survive cancer to be accosted by some asshole.

Oh, and I am a Criminal Justice major, as well as an Army veteran...tougher than I look...mentally, not physically thanks in part to the cancer.

Don't see your question as a criticism...just looking for clarity...fair enough.

Got it. Thanks for the explanation.

Religious disputes are like arguments in a madhouse over which inmate really is Napoleon.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-09-2012, 09:36 AM
RE: Time to gun shop...
I'm going to go with the Walther PPK as well. For the uses you'd have in mind, the available calibers should suffice. It is slim and lightweight. Great for not drawing attention.

-summum ius, summa iniuria.-M. T. Cicero
-I will show you fear in a handful of dust.-T.S. Eliot
-
ἡ φύσις οὐδὲν ποιεῖ ἅλματα

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes il_bandit's post
26-09-2012, 12:29 AM
RE: Time to gun shop...
I going to have to disagree VERY strongly with many of the recommendations that have been made here. I apologize for writing a huge diatribe, but this is something that I do know something about.

While I personally love semi-automatics, they are NOT appropriate as a "carry" weapon. Semi-automatics are sexy, fun to shoot, and who wouldn't want to own the same gun as James Bond...but a a carry weapon, they require you to think too much in a crisis situation. If you're really serious about carrying a gun around with you all the time, there's only one real choice, and that's a short barreled, hammer-less (or concealed hammer) revolver.

The reason why that's the gun you DO want, is because of the litany of things you DON'T want in a "carry" weapon.

First off...you don't want a cheap gun. You can typically buy a high quality revolver for quite a bit less, than a similar quality semi-automatic. You'll be carrying this thing for YEARS and probably never fire it with a real purpose. But if you DO, you need to know that you can count on it. This is NOT the time to be pinching pennies. A carry weapon is a lifetime companion. Buy a well known, name-brand weapon.

2. You don't want it to be heavy...ESPECIALLY since you've made comments about health and strength issues. A gun you've left in the glove compartment, or under your seat because it's a pain in the ass to carry, is worse than worthless. I recommend one of the special lightweight revolvers, made with a titanium or aluminum alloy frame, such as the Smith and Wesson "AirLite" or "Scandium" models. They are MUCH lighter than their steel counterparts, and this is a situation where even fractions of an ounce matter. Also, five-shot revolvers are usually somewhat smaller and lighter than six-shot revolvers.

Yes, that means you only get four shots, since you'll want to carry it with the firing pin on an empty cylinder. People who favor semi-automatics will harp on the fact that you, "get more shots with an auto", but you don't NEED more shots. In a "carry" weapon, extra bullets are just extra weight. In a real life, crisis situation, you're not going to be in an extended gun battle. If you haven't gotten the job done within the first four rounds, you're probably already dead!

3. You don't want a long barrel. It adds to the weight, makes it more unwieldy to carry and draw, and you don't need a long barrel. A "carry' gun is a short range, self defense weapon, not a target pistol. Pulling a gun and firing it at another human being should always be your LAST resort. If you're far enough away to NEED a long barrel, you should consider that distance a head start and use it to get the hell AWAY from them rather than standing your ground and blazing away.

4. You don't want an exposed hammer spur. An exposed hammer is just one more thing for your gun to get snagged on when you can least afford to have it getting snagged. You should never cock a revolver that you're using in a self-defense situation, it's too easy to accidentally discharge in a tense situation. That being the case you don't NEED an exposed hammer, so get a hammer-less or shrouded hammer model.

5. You don't want a gun that you have to train with regularly and maintain regularly in order to depend on. (which is a nice way of saying you don't want a semi-automatic)

Don't get me wrong. I LOVE semi-automatics. They are very dependable, BUT...you have to either carry them with a round in the chamber (not really smart) or be prepared to REMEMBER to jack a round into the chamber, and take the safety off before trying to fire it. With a revolver there's nothing to remember. All you have to remember is to point and pull the trigger.

Also, nothing compares to revolvers for dependability. They're rugged, simple to operate, easy to maintain, and EXTREMELY forgiving of grime, lack of lubrication, and other neglect. If you pull the trigger on a revolver and it doesn't fire, pulling the trigger again will bring an entirely new cartridge into firing position. Automatics DON'T do that.

WHAT SIZE?

.22 and .25 caliber are small and light, but they don't have enough stopping power. .40, .44 Magnum and .45 have great stopping power, but are just too big, too heavy and frankly, I think TOO powerful. In my opinion, the best compromise is the .357 Magnum. Here's why:

The .357 magnum caliber is significantly more powerful than a standard .38 or .38 Special. What many people don't realize is that the .38 Special, isn't actually .38 caliber. It's .357 caliber, in a shorter cartridge than the .357 Magnum. Other than the length of the case, they're identical. What that means, is that you can shoot the shorter .38 Special cartridges in a .357 magnum revolver. The reverse is not true. A .357 magnum cartridge is too long to fit into a .38 Special gun.

So...you can practice shoot your .357 Magnum revolver with cheaper, milder-recoiling .38 Special cartridges, then load it with .357 Magnums when you're ready to carry. (although I DO recommend doing at least some practice with .357 Magnum cartridges, just so you get used to the sound and recoil.)

Last, but not least...go ahead and practice with cheap ammo, but when you're loading it to carry, use name brand, jacketed hollow points. Hollow point ammunition is designed to mushroom and spread out as it passes through tissue. This serves the dual purpose of transferring more energy into the target, and doing more damage to that target, as well as helping to prevent the bullet from passing through the target and harming the people behind them. (I also recommend using jacketed bullets, even when practicing. The metal jacket will significantly reduce lead fouling in the barrel.)

Hope that helps.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like imlemuel's post
26-09-2012, 06:53 AM
RE: Time to gun shop...
(26-09-2012 12:29 AM)imlemuel Wrote:  I going to have to disagree VERY strongly with many of the recommendations that have been made here. I apologize for writing a huge diatribe, but this is something that I do know something about.

While I personally love semi-automatics, they are NOT appropriate as a "carry" weapon. Semi-automatics are sexy, fun to shoot, and who wouldn't want to own the same gun as James Bond...but a a carry weapon, they require you to think too much in a crisis situation. If you're really serious about carrying a gun around with you all the time, there's only one real choice, and that's a short barreled, hammer-less (or concealed hammer) revolver.

The reason why that's the gun you DO want, is because of the litany of things you DON'T want in a "carry" weapon.

First off...you don't want a cheap gun. You can typically buy a high quality revolver for quite a bit less, than a similar quality semi-automatic. You'll be carrying this thing for YEARS and probably never fire it with a real purpose. But if you DO, you need to know that you can count on it. This is NOT the time to be pinching pennies. A carry weapon is a lifetime companion. Buy a well known, name-brand weapon.

2. You don't want it to be heavy...ESPECIALLY since you've made comments about health and strength issues. A gun you've left in the glove compartment, or under your seat because it's a pain in the ass to carry, is worse than worthless. I recommend one of the special lightweight revolvers, made with a titanium or aluminum alloy frame, such as the Smith and Wesson "AirLite" or "Scandium" models. They are MUCH lighter than their steel counterparts, and this is a situation where even fractions of an ounce matter. Also, five-shot revolvers are usually somewhat smaller and lighter than six-shot revolvers.

Yes, that means you only get four shots, since you'll want to carry it with the firing pin on an empty cylinder. People who favor semi-automatics will harp on the fact that you, "get more shots with an auto", but you don't NEED more shots. In a "carry" weapon, extra bullets are just extra weight. In a real life, crisis situation, you're not going to be in an extended gun battle. If you haven't gotten the job done within the first four rounds, you're probably already dead!

3. You don't want a long barrel. It adds to the weight, makes it more unwieldy to carry and draw, and you don't need a long barrel. A "carry' gun is a short range, self defense weapon, not a target pistol. Pulling a gun and firing it at another human being should always be your LAST resort. If you're far enough away to NEED a long barrel, you should consider that distance a head start and use it to get the hell AWAY from them rather than standing your ground and blazing away.

4. You don't want an exposed hammer spur. An exposed hammer is just one more thing for your gun to get snagged on when you can least afford to have it getting snagged. You should never cock a revolver that you're using in a self-defense situation, it's too easy to accidentally discharge in a tense situation. That being the case you don't NEED an exposed hammer, so get a hammer-less or shrouded hammer model.

5. You don't want a gun that you have to train with regularly and maintain regularly in order to depend on. (which is a nice way of saying you don't want a semi-automatic)

Don't get me wrong. I LOVE semi-automatics. They are very dependable, BUT...you have to either carry them with a round in the chamber (not really smart) or be prepared to REMEMBER to jack a round into the chamber, and take the safety off before trying to fire it. With a revolver there's nothing to remember. All you have to remember is to point and pull the trigger.

Also, nothing compares to revolvers for dependability. They're rugged, simple to operate, easy to maintain, and EXTREMELY forgiving of grime, lack of lubrication, and other neglect. If you pull the trigger on a revolver and it doesn't fire, pulling the trigger again will bring an entirely new cartridge into firing position. Automatics DON'T do that.

WHAT SIZE?

.22 and .25 caliber are small and light, but they don't have enough stopping power. .40, .44 Magnum and .45 have great stopping power, but are just too big, too heavy and frankly, I think TOO powerful. In my opinion, the best compromise is the .357 Magnum. Here's why:

The .357 magnum caliber is significantly more powerful than a standard .38 or .38 Special. What many people don't realize is that the .38 Special, isn't actually .38 caliber. It's .357 caliber, in a shorter cartridge than the .357 Magnum. Other than the length of the case, they're identical. What that means, is that you can shoot the shorter .38 Special cartridges in a .357 magnum revolver. The reverse is not true. A .357 magnum cartridge is too long to fit into a .38 Special gun.

So...you can practice shoot your .357 Magnum revolver with cheaper, milder-recoiling .38 Special cartridges, then load it with .357 Magnums when you're ready to carry. (although I DO recommend doing at least some practice with .357 Magnum cartridges, just so you get used to the sound and recoil.)

Last, but not least...go ahead and practice with cheap ammo, but when you're loading it to carry, use name brand, jacketed hollow points. Hollow point ammunition is designed to mushroom and spread out as it passes through tissue. This serves the dual purpose of transferring more energy into the target, and doing more damage to that target, as well as helping to prevent the bullet from passing through the target and harming the people behind them. (I also recommend using jacketed bullets, even when practicing. The metal jacket will significantly reduce lead fouling in the barrel.)

Hope that helps.

You make some very good points, but there are a couple of things I would disagree with.
There are semi-auto pistols that are safe for carry with a round chambered, e.g. Sig P232. The action does not require cocking and there is no safety, so the first round is immediately ready by just pulling the trigger.
An advantage of a semi-auto is that it is flatter in cross-section, therefore more concealable.
A semi-auto with a simple blow-back action is as reliable as a revolver, requiring no more maintenance or practice.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Chas's post
26-09-2012, 07:15 AM
RE: Time to gun shop...
(26-09-2012 12:29 AM)imlemuel Wrote:  I going to have to disagree VERY strongly with many of the recommendations that have been made here. I apologize for writing a huge diatribe, but this is something that I do know something about.

While I personally love semi-automatics, they are NOT appropriate as a "carry" weapon. Semi-automatics are sexy, fun to shoot, and who wouldn't want to own the same gun as James Bond...but a a carry weapon, they require you to think too much in a crisis situation. If you're really serious about carrying a gun around with you all the time, there's only one real choice, and that's a short barreled, hammer-less (or concealed hammer) revolver.

The reason why that's the gun you DO want, is because of the litany of things you DON'T want in a "carry" weapon.

First off...you don't want a cheap gun. You can typically buy a high quality revolver for quite a bit less, than a similar quality semi-automatic. You'll be carrying this thing for YEARS and probably never fire it with a real purpose. But if you DO, you need to know that you can count on it. This is NOT the time to be pinching pennies. A carry weapon is a lifetime companion. Buy a well known, name-brand weapon.

2. You don't want it to be heavy...ESPECIALLY since you've made comments about health and strength issues. A gun you've left in the glove compartment, or under your seat because it's a pain in the ass to carry, is worse than worthless. I recommend one of the special lightweight revolvers, made with a titanium or aluminum alloy frame, such as the Smith and Wesson "AirLite" or "Scandium" models. They are MUCH lighter than their steel counterparts, and this is a situation where even fractions of an ounce matter. Also, five-shot revolvers are usually somewhat smaller and lighter than six-shot revolvers.

Yes, that means you only get four shots, since you'll want to carry it with the firing pin on an empty cylinder. People who favor semi-automatics will harp on the fact that you, "get more shots with an auto", but you don't NEED more shots. In a "carry" weapon, extra bullets are just extra weight. In a real life, crisis situation, you're not going to be in an extended gun battle. If you haven't gotten the job done within the first four rounds, you're probably already dead!

3. You don't want a long barrel. It adds to the weight, makes it more unwieldy to carry and draw, and you don't need a long barrel. A "carry' gun is a short range, self defense weapon, not a target pistol. Pulling a gun and firing it at another human being should always be your LAST resort. If you're far enough away to NEED a long barrel, you should consider that distance a head start and use it to get the hell AWAY from them rather than standing your ground and blazing away.

4. You don't want an exposed hammer spur. An exposed hammer is just one more thing for your gun to get snagged on when you can least afford to have it getting snagged. You should never cock a revolver that you're using in a self-defense situation, it's too easy to accidentally discharge in a tense situation. That being the case you don't NEED an exposed hammer, so get a hammer-less or shrouded hammer model.

5. You don't want a gun that you have to train with regularly and maintain regularly in order to depend on. (which is a nice way of saying you don't want a semi-automatic)

Don't get me wrong. I LOVE semi-automatics. They are very dependable, BUT...you have to either carry them with a round in the chamber (not really smart) or be prepared to REMEMBER to jack a round into the chamber, and take the safety off before trying to fire it. With a revolver there's nothing to remember. All you have to remember is to point and pull the trigger.

Also, nothing compares to revolvers for dependability. They're rugged, simple to operate, easy to maintain, and EXTREMELY forgiving of grime, lack of lubrication, and other neglect. If you pull the trigger on a revolver and it doesn't fire, pulling the trigger again will bring an entirely new cartridge into firing position. Automatics DON'T do that.

WHAT SIZE?

.22 and .25 caliber are small and light, but they don't have enough stopping power. .40, .44 Magnum and .45 have great stopping power, but are just too big, too heavy and frankly, I think TOO powerful. In my opinion, the best compromise is the .357 Magnum. Here's why:

The .357 magnum caliber is significantly more powerful than a standard .38 or .38 Special. What many people don't realize is that the .38 Special, isn't actually .38 caliber. It's .357 caliber, in a shorter cartridge than the .357 Magnum. Other than the length of the case, they're identical. What that means, is that you can shoot the shorter .38 Special cartridges in a .357 magnum revolver. The reverse is not true. A .357 magnum cartridge is too long to fit into a .38 Special gun.

So...you can practice shoot your .357 Magnum revolver with cheaper, milder-recoiling .38 Special cartridges, then load it with .357 Magnums when you're ready to carry. (although I DO recommend doing at least some practice with .357 Magnum cartridges, just so you get used to the sound and recoil.)

Last, but not least...go ahead and practice with cheap ammo, but when you're loading it to carry, use name brand, jacketed hollow points. Hollow point ammunition is designed to mushroom and spread out as it passes through tissue. This serves the dual purpose of transferring more energy into the target, and doing more damage to that target, as well as helping to prevent the bullet from passing through the target and harming the people behind them. (I also recommend using jacketed bullets, even when practicing. The metal jacket will significantly reduce lead fouling in the barrel.)

Hope that helps.

"While I personally love semi-automatics, they are NOT appropriate as a "carry" weapon. Semi-automatics are sexy, fun to shoot, and who wouldn't want to own the same gun as James Bond...but a a carry weapon, they require you to think too much in a crisis situation. If you're really serious about carrying a gun around with you all the time, there's only one real choice, and that's a short barreled, hammer-less (or concealed hammer) revolver. "

My Glocks prove this statement wrong.Drinking Beverage

" Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous."
David Hume
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-09-2012, 11:05 AM
RE: Time to gun shop...
Lots of good comments all around. I'm sure you're seeing by now that people's loyalty to their particular gun maker is comparable to that of the religious to their particular creed.

In addition, there's the whole debate over whether it's a good idea to carry a gun at all, and the dangers to curious kids, etc. I'll set that debate aside, because it sounds like you're pretty positive that you want to carry. As long as you're absolutely certain that you COULD use it if you had too...then by all means do.

KidCharlemagne1962 is completely right when he says you should find a gun range and try shooting a number of different guns and see which one is best for YOU. Bear in mind that recoil is less a concern than you might think. While it isn't as much fun to SHOOT a gun with a lot of recoil...in a crisis situation, you'll never feel it.

Glock makes great guns, and so does Sig and Walther. My concern is the fact that the BIGGEST mistake that most new gun owners make, when it comes to a concealed carry weapon is buying a gun that's too big and too heavy. They carry it for a while, then start leaving it in glove compartment and only carrying it when they, "think they might need it." Trust me, when you don't think you'll need it, is when you'll need it. Either carry it all the time, or not at all. The first rule of being in a gunfight, is to be sure you have a gun. Smaller, lighter and easier to carry trumps everything else.

Hell, North American Arms, makes a little .22 caliber mini-revolver that absolutely removes any excuse anyone might have ever had against carrying a gun. You could put the damn thing on your key chain! Yes, it breaks my, "no hammer spur" rule, and NO, it doesn't have a lot of firepower, but it beats the hell out of using your teeth and fingernails, and it's VERY small and very easy to carry.

I personally don't LIKE revolvers. They're ugly. They're clunky looking and inelegant...but they're a good design. Any firearm is simply a device that's designed to contain an explosion. The bigger the explosion, the more power behind the projectile. The basic design of a revolver wraps the frame all the way around the cylinder, which allows a larger explosion to be contained by a smaller, lighter device.

If you really want a semi-automatic, the Sig P232 (a good recommendation by Chas), is a great gun, it's very light weight (for an automatic). Glock makes a really nice "carry" weapon too, but they are all .380 caliber or .38 Special, and even the lightest semi-automatic .38 is still going to weigh almost twice what a Smith & Wesson 340PD does, and the 340PD is .357 Magnum!

Even if you go out to a gun range and shoot several different calibers, and decide that a .357 is, "too much gun", you can always load it with .38 Specials, which is something you CAN'T do with an auto. (It also gives you the opportunity to practice with ammo that is a LOT less expensive.) Then, as your recovery (at least I sure HOPE it's a recovery) from cancer continues, you can "upgrade" to .357 as your upper body strength improves.

Lastly...The gun itself isn't the only thing you have to consider. I know misfires don't happen often, but they DO happen...and the longer you carry a weapon the more likely they are to happen. You'll get comfortable with it and the less mindful of maintenance, that's human nature. A piece of pocket lint might find its way in, or a drop of moisture or oil might foul a primer. When you're in a CRISIS situation, and somebody's got you on the ground trying to pry your legs apart and you stick your gun in his ribs and pull the trigger........and nothing happens.....you DON'T want to have to remember that you can just pull the slide back and eject that round...you want to be able to just pull that damn trigger again, and bring another round under the hammer!

A revolver is the only weapon that will do that.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
26-09-2012, 07:16 PM
RE: Time to gun shop...
As much as it's boring, if I were going to carry I would carry a Glock 19. For target shooting, I definitely prefer 1911s, revolvers, my vz. 82. But for a carry weapon, there isn't much that's more practical than a 9mm Glock. The Glock 19 is what I would carry. If you can stand the "sub-compact" frames (I cannot) then you could go a size smaller and try the Glock 26.


Bigger is not always better. 9mm is the best calibre for self-defense, period. It offers the right combination of stopping power, weight, recoil, and cost. Moving upwards in power gives you only marginal gains in lethality, and moving down reduces lethality significantly. And Glock would be my choice because the Glock 19 offers the best combination of concealability, ergonomics, accuracy, and reliability. However much I prefer DA/SA handguns and military designs, Glock is the most practical choice for a carry weapon, hands down.

If I were buying a handgun to target shoot? Vz. 82, because of the accuracy, feel, and low cost to own. Wouldn't carry it though, it would snag on something. Followed by an M1911, which I would not carry because of the weight and recoil.

E 2 = (mc 2)2 + (pc )2
614C → 714N + e + ̅νe
2 K(s) + 2 H2O(l) → 2 KOH(aq) + H2 (g) + 196 kJ/mol
It works, bitches.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
28-09-2012, 09:27 AM (This post was last modified: 28-09-2012 09:34 AM by Misanthropik.)
RE: Time to gun shop...
Whenever a female friend asks me to recommend a gun, I suggest a Ruger SP-101.

It's small, compact, is very comfortable/easy to shoot, packs five rounds of .357 hollow-points, and most of all, is a Ruger, so it's completely solid and reliable.

I personally carry a Glock 21 on my hip, but that's because I don't mind advertising. If I were more interested in being concealed, my first choice would be the Ruger. They're not too expensive, either. Depending on where you get it, it should be $500 to $600. And with hollow-points, you don't have to worry about "pissing him off". He'll drop where he stands. lol

[Image: 400px-RugerSP101.jpg]

Through profound pain comes profound knowledge.
Ridi, Pagliaccio, sul tuo amore infranto! Ridi del duol, che t'avvelena il cor!
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Misanthropik's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: