Timebunt gentes nomen tuum Domine
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23-09-2013, 05:12 AM
RE: Timebunt gentes nomen tuum Domine
(22-09-2013 08:09 PM)GaëlK7 Wrote:  Well it definitely sounds better in the original elvish.
Besides, everyone knows tengwar is the native language of real magic.
May Mystra and her chosen Elminster and Khelben Arunsun smile upon you.

I said smile, not point and laugh.

Obviously I disagree with your claim that Latin is magic, but I do believe that it is a sacred language. The Jews have Hebrew, the Muslims have arabic, the Christians in the east had Greek, the Christians in the West. To all these people these languages are holy and sacred. The West has impoverished itself by neglecting Latin. The restoration of Latin in all our Catholic churches will have a dramatic impact on building up the sacredness and sanctity of the mass.

Latin has a distinctive power. In prayer, in meditation and in worship. Its not that hard to make a start.
Agnus Dei - Lamb of God
Sanctus - Holy
Pater Noster - Our Father
Ave Maria - Hail Mary

Catholics will find their spiritual lives greatly enhanced if they make this powerful connection with the founding language of the Christian Church of the West. It is part of our heritage and our culture. If only we did not have a cultural cringe about Latin we could really start to regain a connection to our deepest roots and our Western, Christian heritage.
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23-09-2013, 06:36 AM
 
RE: Timebunt gentes nomen tuum Domine
(23-09-2013 05:12 AM)excubitor Wrote:  Catholics will find their spiritual lives greatly enhanced if they make this powerful connection with the founding language of the Christian Church of the West. It is part of our heritage and our culture. If only we did not have a cultural cringe about Latin we could really start to regain a connection to our deepest roots and our Western, Christian heritage.

What cultural cringe? Latin and Ancient Greek are taught in secondary/high schools throughout Europe. Such schools are called gymnasiums. The name lyceum also occurs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gymnasium_%28school%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyceum

Also, Latin is used in the academic world - names of body parts (in medicine) are in Latin, names of animals (in zoology) are also in Latin, there are many Latin abbreviations (such as etc., i.e., vice versa, Ibid., alma mater...).

Why didn't you ever study Latin? Big Grin
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23-09-2013, 08:08 AM (This post was last modified: 23-09-2013 08:17 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Timebunt gentes nomen tuum Domine
Fallacy of the false analogy.
The Hebrews have Hebrew. Muslims have Arabic, and ... finish it with me kiddies ...
Jebus SPOKE ARAMAIC.

Not Greek, not Latin. (As you see he failed his analogies and didn't pass his ACTs which may be why he's so uneducated).

Latin will never again replace native languages in worship. It was "allowed" as an "extraordinary form", by Pope Benny because he was/is as devoted to living in the past this ancient fossilized Catholic. Language is language. Any deity obviously could care less what language she gets worshiped in. It's not even the language their founders used. If it's SO important, why did no Jebus or apostle speak his (new) "sacred" language. Obviously the human pedo-organization called the RCC is way more important to this dude than anything authentically Christian.

The ONLY reason they use/used Latin was because the Roman Emperor was the most responsible person for the establishment of their cult.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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23-09-2013, 08:34 AM
RE: Timebunt gentes nomen tuum Domine
I remember attending mass, and it was always all in Latin. I had learned Latin, but the majority of the people there were like parrots who had been taught to speak by a tape - no idea what they were saying.

Don't you think it is better if people actually knew what they were talking about?

Btw. I found my Latin knowledge quite useful over the years - it makes learning Latin based languages easy as pie, when you learn Latin you are learning the root of many, many words in many languages and sciences. Figure out how each language changed the words over time, and you have a great vocabulary from the start.

However, the average person does not have a knowledge of Latin at all, and going to church and babbling gibberish isn't going to do anyone any good.

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Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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23-09-2013, 08:38 AM
RE: Timebunt gentes nomen tuum Domine
(23-09-2013 05:12 AM)excubitor Wrote:  Ave Maria - Hail Mary

Ave, True to Caesar
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23-09-2013, 09:22 AM
RE: Timebunt gentes nomen tuum Domine
The only advantage of Latin was its spread. Since churches had the charge of education, it survived its usefulness as an imperial language long after local languages took precedence.
The spread or popularity of a language doesn't grant it a special status. By your own logic, english and mandarin would be sacred.
With this out of the way what are the properties of a sacred language? What distinguishes it from a profane one? What are the differences compared to a magic language?
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23-09-2013, 11:03 AM
RE: Timebunt gentes nomen tuum Domine
(22-09-2013 02:36 AM)excubitor Wrote:  The Allelluia reading today the 18th Sunday after Pentecost in the Extraordinary form of the Latin Rite of the Roman Catholic Church is from Psalm 101:16 and reads as follows.

Allelluia, Allelluia. The Gentiles shall fear Thy name, O Lord: and all the kings of the earth Thy glory Allelluia.

As you proved in your other thread, you don't know your own religion. Therefore, the accuracy of anything you have to say about it is suspect. Your task of convincing me that accurate Catholicism is truth would be impossible. Your task of convincing me of the same regarding your version of it is even harder. Drinking Beverage

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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23-09-2013, 01:41 PM
RE: Timebunt gentes nomen tuum Domine
(23-09-2013 08:34 AM)Dom Wrote:  I remember attending mass, and it was always all in Latin. I had learned Latin, but the majority of the people there were like parrots who had been taught to speak by a tape - no idea what they were saying.

Don't you think it is better if people actually knew what they were talking about?

Btw. I found my Latin knowledge quite useful over the years - it makes learning Latin based languages easy as pie, when you learn Latin you are learning the root of many, many words in many languages and sciences. Figure out how each language changed the words over time, and you have a great vocabulary from the start.

However, the average person does not have a knowledge of Latin at all, and going to church and babbling gibberish isn't going to do anyone any good.

The old missals had Latin on one side and English on the other so anyone attending a Latin mass could understand exactly what was being said provided they could listen and read along.
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23-09-2013, 02:04 PM
RE: Timebunt gentes nomen tuum Domine
(23-09-2013 01:41 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(23-09-2013 08:34 AM)Dom Wrote:  I remember attending mass, and it was always all in Latin. I had learned Latin, but the majority of the people there were like parrots who had been taught to speak by a tape - no idea what they were saying.

Don't you think it is better if people actually knew what they were talking about?

Btw. I found my Latin knowledge quite useful over the years - it makes learning Latin based languages easy as pie, when you learn Latin you are learning the root of many, many words in many languages and sciences. Figure out how each language changed the words over time, and you have a great vocabulary from the start.

However, the average person does not have a knowledge of Latin at all, and going to church and babbling gibberish isn't going to do anyone any good.

The old missals had Latin on one side and English on the other so anyone attending a Latin mass could understand exactly what was being said provided they could listen and read along.

Some did, some didn't. The one I have, that was given to me by my Abbott friend, does not. You old Catholic fossils shouldn't make assumptions, and spout off about things you know nothing.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein
Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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23-09-2013, 10:32 PM
RE: Timebunt gentes nomen tuum Domine
(23-09-2013 08:34 AM)Dom Wrote:  I remember attending mass, and it was always all in Latin. I had learned Latin, but the majority of the people there were like parrots who had been taught to speak by a tape - no idea what they were saying.
Certainly. But now I see people parroting in English and the majority have no idea what they are saying.
(23-09-2013 08:34 AM)Dom Wrote:  Don't you think it is better if people actually knew what they were talking about?
Certainly. However the concepts expressed in the mass are very high and requires Christians to grow in knowledge and understanding of their faith and the scriptures in order to grow in comprehension of these things. A horrible tendency in recent decades has been to dumb down the mass to make it accessible to the average man. The problem with this approach is that the dumbness of the average man almost invariably declines over time. We should not under any circumstances allow the mass to be dumbed down. If people are of a mind to learn about the faith and the scriptures then Latin will prove very little additional object to them.
I am not arguing for a blanket return to Latin only. However I also do not want it completely forgotten either. I would like to see the use of Latin fostered. The Agnus Dei, the Sanctus, the Credo, the Pater Noster could all be used in the ordinary of the Mass. The gospel could be read in Latin by the priest and repeated in English at the opening of his homily as was the tradition for many years prior to Vatican 2.
The use of Latin and high translations of English which do not dumb down the mass is necessary because the Mass and the scriptures should cause men to grow and reach toward God, especially as they mature in the faith.

(23-09-2013 08:34 AM)Dom Wrote:  Btw. I found my Latin knowledge quite useful over the years - it makes learning Latin based languages easy as pie, when you learn Latin you are learning the root of many, many words in many languages and sciences. Figure out how each language changed the words over time, and you have a great vocabulary from the start.
So we are surely in agreement. Latin enhances our understanding of our own language. On what grounds therefore can you say that the use of Latin would not enhance the understanding and appreciation of the Mass?

However, the average person does not have a knowledge of Latin at all, and going to church and babbling gibberish isn't going to do anyone any good.
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