Timebunt gentes nomen tuum Domine
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23-09-2013, 10:39 PM (This post was last modified: 24-09-2013 06:55 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Timebunt gentes nomen tuum Domine
(23-09-2013 10:32 PM)excubitor Wrote:  However, the average person does not have a knowledge of Latin at all, and going to church and babbling gibberish isn't going to do anyone any good.

And Jebus knows, he's ANYTHING but "average".
Snort.

Well, maybe a better than average snob and pompous ass.

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Those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music - Friedrich Nietzsche
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23-09-2013, 11:01 PM
RE: Timebunt gentes nomen tuum Domine
(23-09-2013 10:32 PM)excubitor Wrote:  Certainly. However the concepts expressed in the mass are very high and requires Christians to grow in knowledge and understanding of their faith and the scriptures in order to grow in comprehension of these things. A horrible tendency in recent decades has been to dumb down the mass to make it accessible to the average man. The problem with this approach is that the dumbness of the average man almost invariably declines over time. We should not under any circumstances allow the mass to be dumbed down. If people are of a mind to learn about the faith and the scriptures then Latin will prove very little additional object to them.
I am not arguing for a blanket return to Latin only. However I also do not want it completely forgotten either. I would like to see the use of Latin fostered. The Agnus Dei, the Sanctus, the Credo, the Pater Noster could all be used in the ordinary of the Mass. The gospel could be read in Latin by the priest and repeated in English at the opening of his homily as was the tradition for many years prior to Vatican 2.
The use of Latin and high translations of English which do not dumb down the mass is necessary because the Mass and the scriptures should cause men to grow and reach toward God, especially as they mature in the faith.


I love how you equate 'intelligence' with obfuscation and 'dumbed down' with accessibility... Drinking Beverage

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24-09-2013, 03:21 AM
RE: Timebunt gentes nomen tuum Domine
(23-09-2013 01:41 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  
(23-09-2013 08:34 AM)Dom Wrote:  I remember attending mass, and it was always all in Latin. I had learned Latin, but the majority of the people there were like parrots who had been taught to speak by a tape - no idea what they were saying.

Don't you think it is better if people actually knew what they were talking about?

Btw. I found my Latin knowledge quite useful over the years - it makes learning Latin based languages easy as pie, when you learn Latin you are learning the root of many, many words in many languages and sciences. Figure out how each language changed the words over time, and you have a great vocabulary from the start.

However, the average person does not have a knowledge of Latin at all, and going to church and babbling gibberish isn't going to do anyone any good.

The old missals had Latin on one side and English on the other so anyone attending a Latin mass could understand exactly what was being said provided they could listen and read along.
This is the first post which I have liked on this forum. Good point.
The other thing I would like to point out is that the mass is not an entertainment spot for the people. It is an actual prayer to God. It is directed to God which is why having the priest facing away from the people towards the altar better illustrates this. When praying to God we do not need to dumb down our language or pray in the vernacular. God understands all languages and is especially pleased by those sacred languages. Hebrew, Greek and Latin. Why then would we not pray to him using a sacred language?

When the priest addresses the people he turns to face them and says "Dominus Vobiscum" the Lord be with you, and he blesses them saying Benedicat Vos omnipotens Deus, Pater, et Filius et Spiritus Sanctus.
"May almighty God bless you, the Father, and the Son and the Holy Ghost.

An important part of the service is the Homily, this part of the service the priest faces the people and speaks to them in language which is common to their state. Homily means "to the man" whereas the mass is largely towards God.
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24-09-2013, 03:24 AM (This post was last modified: 24-09-2013 03:27 AM by excubitor.)
RE: Timebunt gentes nomen tuum Domine
Why can't I delete this post. I inadvertently replied to the reprobate Bucky. A thing which I said I would no longer do.
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24-09-2013, 03:37 AM
RE: Timebunt gentes nomen tuum Domine
(24-09-2013 03:24 AM)excubitor Wrote:  Why can't I delete this post. I inadvertently replied to the reprobate Bucky. A thing which I said I would no longer do.

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24-09-2013, 03:46 AM
 
RE: Timebunt gentes nomen tuum Domine
(24-09-2013 03:24 AM)excubitor Wrote:  Why can't I delete this post. I inadvertently replied to the reprobate Bucky. A thing which I said I would no longer do.

You better pray for forgiveness. Drinking Beverage
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24-09-2013, 03:56 AM
RE: Timebunt gentes nomen tuum Domine
(24-09-2013 03:21 AM)excubitor Wrote:  This is the first post which I have liked on this forum. Good point.
The other thing I would like to point out is that the mass is not an entertainment spot for the people. It is an actual prayer to God. It is directed to God which is why having the priest facing away from the people towards the altar better illustrates this. When praying to God we do not need to dumb down our language or pray in the vernacular. God understands all languages and is especially pleased by those sacred languages. Hebrew, Greek and Latin. Why then would we not pray to him using a sacred language?

When the priest addresses the people he turns to face them and says "Dominus Vobiscum" the Lord be with you, and he blesses them saying Benedicat Vos omnipotens Deus, Pater, et Filius et Spiritus Sanctus.
"May almighty God bless you, the Father, and the Son and the Holy Ghost.

An important part of the service is the Homily, this part of the service the priest faces the people and speaks to them in language which is common to their state. Homily means "to the man" whereas the mass is largely towards God.


So your god split the languages of man at the tower of babel, yet only some of the ones he created are holy? Blink

What defines a holy language from a non-holy one (beyond the fiat of yourself or your church)? Drinking Beverage

Why does the 'holiness' of a language seem to based on it's proximity to Palestine, leaving people in the Americas and Asia shit out of luck? Consider

Why in the fuck does your all powerful creator, who created us and our languages, need so many god-damn middle men between his omnipresent self and his believers? Consider

If your God is omnipresent, does it matter what direction the priest or the congregation faces? Laughat



Historically the Church tortured and killed those who originally tried to translate the Bible into a language understood by the people. The Roman Catholic Church did this not because Latin was a 'holy' language, but because in doing so they lost some of their earthly power; they lost their monopoly in interpreting the book (and thus the word of God as dictated by them) for the people. You no longer had to just take what the Church said at face value, you could read the Bible yourself and think for yourself and come to your own conclusions. This was a good thing, and it was fought tooth and nail by the Church and was one of the forces behind the Protestant Reformation (the dissemination of Bibles in the vulgate made easier by the printing press). It once again came down to politics and mere human power struggles.

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24-09-2013, 06:15 AM (This post was last modified: 24-09-2013 06:32 AM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Timebunt gentes nomen tuum Domine
(24-09-2013 03:21 AM)excubitor Wrote:  
(23-09-2013 01:41 PM)Heywood Jahblome Wrote:  The old missals had Latin on one side and English on the other so anyone attending a Latin mass could understand exactly what was being said provided they could listen and read along.
This is the first post which I have liked on this forum. Good point.
The other thing I would like to point out is that the mass is not an entertainment spot for the people. It is an actual prayer to God. It is directed to God which is why having the priest facing away from the people towards the altar better illustrates this. When praying to God we do not need to dumb down our language or pray in the vernacular. God understands all languages and is especially pleased by those sacred languages. Hebrew, Greek and Latin. Why then would we not pray to him using a sacred language?

When the priest addresses the people he turns to face them and says "Dominus Vobiscum" the Lord be with you, and he blesses them saying Benedicat Vos omnipotens Deus, Pater, et Filius et Spiritus Sanctus.
"May almighty God bless you, the Father, and the Son and the Holy Ghost.

An important part of the service is the Homily, this part of the service the priest faces the people and speaks to them in language which is common to their state. Homily means "to the man" whereas the mass is largely towards God.

Just more proof this Old Catholic knows nothing, and is now actually preaching anti-Vatican II garbage. The Roman Church turned their altars around for a reason. He's arguing against what their infallible council proclaimed. More proof he'is no real Catholic, but one of those old fart ULTRA-Conservative insane Catholic right ring nut cases.

In their Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, it says : "Pastors of souls must therefore realize that, when the liturgy is celebrated, something more is required than the mere observation of the laws governing valid and licit celebration; it is their duty also to ensure that the faithful take part fully aware of what they are doing, actively engaged in the rite, and enriched by its effects.”

The Eucharist was cooked up by the early church because their competition was the thanksgiving feasts of the Greek mystery cults. The history of why they CHANGED what they say was the institution of it, (a MEAL with Jebus), is long, and boring. The Mass is not "praying to the gods". The Eucharist according to them is : http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/ar...s2c1a3.htm
It would help if this one actually read his Catechism instead of making up stuff, and "preaching heresy". Tongue

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24-09-2013, 06:54 AM
RE: Timebunt gentes nomen tuum Domine
(24-09-2013 06:15 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  
(24-09-2013 03:21 AM)excubitor Wrote:  This is the first post which I have liked on this forum. Good point.
The other thing I would like to point out is that the mass is not an entertainment spot for the people. It is an actual prayer to God. It is directed to God which is why having the priest facing away from the people towards the altar better illustrates this. When praying to God we do not need to dumb down our language or pray in the vernacular. God understands all languages and is especially pleased by those sacred languages. Hebrew, Greek and Latin. Why then would we not pray to him using a sacred language?

When the priest addresses the people he turns to face them and says "Dominus Vobiscum" the Lord be with you, and he blesses them saying Benedicat Vos omnipotens Deus, Pater, et Filius et Spiritus Sanctus.
"May almighty God bless you, the Father, and the Son and the Holy Ghost.

An important part of the service is the Homily, this part of the service the priest faces the people and speaks to them in language which is common to their state. Homily means "to the man" whereas the mass is largely towards God.

Just more proof this Old Catholic knows nothing, and is now actually preaching anti-Vatican II garbage. The Roman Church turned their altars around for a reason. He's arguing against what their infallible council proclaimed. More proof he'is no real Catholic, but one of those old fart ULTRA-Conservative insane Catholic right ring nut cases.

In their Constitution on the Sacred Liturgy, it says : "Pastors of souls must therefore realize that, when the liturgy is celebrated, something more is required than the mere observation of the laws governing valid and licit celebration; it is their duty also to ensure that the faithful take part fully aware of what they are doing, actively engaged in the rite, and enriched by its effects.”

The Eucharist was cooked up by the early church because their competition was the thanksgiving feasts of the Greek mystery cults. The history of why they CHANGED what they say was the institution of it, (a MEAL with Jebus), is long, and boring. The Mass is not "praying to the gods". The Eucharist according to them is : http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/ar...s2c1a3.htm
It would help if this one actually read his Catechism instead of making up stuff, and "preaching heresy". Tongue

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Conclusion? excubitor sucks at his religion.

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24-09-2013, 07:30 AM
RE: Timebunt gentes nomen tuum Domine
(24-09-2013 06:54 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Conclusion? excubitor sucks at his religion.


Actually, he's quite good at his religion.

It's just that his religion isn't Roman Catholicism. Drinking Beverage

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