Tired...
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18-11-2012, 03:37 AM
RE: Tired...
(18-11-2012 03:16 AM)Logisch Wrote:  
(18-11-2012 03:04 AM)k37713 Wrote:  I am so sick of having a whole conversation with people who say that they want to talk about religion with me...which by the way I usually start off with "you are not going to like what I have to say"..and ending up with people telling me that my extreme upbringing aka Mormonism is responsible for my lack of faith... It's almost as if eyes cloud over when you say that.."Christians" that have never had half a mind to question their own beliefs ..where they came from .. Who they came from..what the history of it..who wrote their so called holy books..look at me like I am just trying to be rebellious. "Ohhhhh.. You grew up Mormon...now I understand"... How is it that no one sees the ridiculousness of their own fairy tale..but somehow they have figured me out.... Ugh..maybe this should go in the rank thread...sorry
It in itself is the no true scottsman fallacy.
"Well they didn't have true religion x to begin with"
or
"Well they weren't a real christian to begin with"

It becomes extraordinarily frustrating indeed. Sorry to hear that you're dealing with it in friends and family and what not. It's the same thing talking to my family.

"Oh you were an X? Well that's the issue, you never had real faith to begin with!"

Unfortunately, most the time i point out the fallacy, people generally dismiss it as if there is no such thing going on. After all, how can one person "have it right" but everyone else is wrong?


It is super aggravating..even people that I know love me have demeaned me by trying to break down my thoughts and telling me that it starts and ends with my upbringing..and my need to break away from it..I figured out Mormonism was bs at 12..it took me a lot longer to see that all religions were silly and that I didn't need a god to survive..I've never had anyone consistent in my life so the thought of god was more than comforting..for people to say to me that my thoughts are no bigger than a grudge that I have from a "extreme" religion is the ultimate insult to me.. At least give me the fucking respect that I have thought things out and I'm not just some angst filled bitch trying to revolt..I was never even that deep into it.. ESP when talking to people who claim to be religious with no idea how or why

Life is short and hard like a body building elf-- Blood Hound Gang
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18-11-2012, 03:53 AM
RE: Tired...
(18-11-2012 03:15 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  Deal with it. We are all tired of something. I am tired of my dead end job sitting here night after fucking night logging in drunken visitors to wastes of flesh until 6am in the morning. Tired of trying to go somewhere and going nowhere, while these shitheads that drink excessively somehow continue to hold down jobs where despite being quite immature make far more money than I do. I wish alcohol would kill within a matter of a year if you drink far too much of it.
What would your job be?
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18-11-2012, 03:56 AM
RE: Tired...
(18-11-2012 03:37 AM)k37713 Wrote:  
(18-11-2012 03:16 AM)Logisch Wrote:  It in itself is the no true scottsman fallacy.
"Well they didn't have true religion x to begin with"
or
"Well they weren't a real christian to begin with"

It becomes extraordinarily frustrating indeed. Sorry to hear that you're dealing with it in friends and family and what not. It's the same thing talking to my family.

"Oh you were an X? Well that's the issue, you never had real faith to begin with!"

Unfortunately, most the time i point out the fallacy, people generally dismiss it as if there is no such thing going on. After all, how can one person "have it right" but everyone else is wrong?


It is super aggravating..even people that I know love me have demeaned me by trying to break down my thoughts and telling me that it starts and ends with my upbringing..and my need to break away from it..I figured out Mormonism was bs at 12..it took me a lot longer to see that all religions were silly and that I didn't need a god to survive..I've never had anyone consistent in my life so the thought of god was more than comforting..for people to say to me that my thoughts are no bigger than a grudge that I have from a "extreme" religion is the ultimate insult to me.. At least give me the fucking respect that I have thought things out and I'm not just some angst filled bitch trying to revolt..I was never even that deep into it.. ESP when talking to people who claim to be religious with no idea how or why
Hi....

it can only be aggravating if you let it be. If you proudly, confidently admit your atheism with a smile, they can't hurt you.
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18-11-2012, 03:58 AM
RE: Tired...
With a smile?! Bah! I admit it with a wolfish grin.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.
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18-11-2012, 04:02 AM
RE: Tired...
(18-11-2012 03:37 AM)k37713 Wrote:  
(18-11-2012 03:16 AM)Logisch Wrote:  It in itself is the no true scottsman fallacy.
"Well they didn't have true religion x to begin with"
or
"Well they weren't a real christian to begin with"

It becomes extraordinarily frustrating indeed. Sorry to hear that you're dealing with it in friends and family and what not. It's the same thing talking to my family.

"Oh you were an X? Well that's the issue, you never had real faith to begin with!"

Unfortunately, most the time i point out the fallacy, people generally dismiss it as if there is no such thing going on. After all, how can one person "have it right" but everyone else is wrong?


It is super aggravating..even people that I know love me have demeaned me by trying to break down my thoughts and telling me that it starts and ends with my upbringing..and my need to break away from it..I figured out Mormonism was bs at 12..it took me a lot longer to see that all religions were silly and that I didn't need a god to survive..I've never had anyone consistent in my life so the thought of god was more than comforting..for people to say to me that my thoughts are no bigger than a grudge that I have from a "extreme" religion is the ultimate insult to me.. At least give me the fucking respect that I have thought things out and I'm not just some angst filled bitch trying to revolt..I was never even that deep into it.. ESP when talking to people who claim to be religious with no idea how or why
It's the fight for cognitive dissonance. You can point out a perfectly well understood logical fallacy and cognitive dissonance comes into play. I find it infuriating. It usually goes something like:

Theist: "Oh so you were a christian and now you're an atheist?"
me: "Correct"
Theist: "Sounds like you didn't have REAL faith or you weren't a REAL christian then. No true christian strays from god."

When things like that come up, you usually need a mental fucking ninja star to eat away at that logical fallacy because it is the no true scottsman fallacy cleverly disguised.

My favorite example would be:

Me: "So you say I had no faith, but I'd propose otherwise. I could stand here all day and talk to you about it. But do you trust your pastor?"

USUALLY they say yes, of course they trust their pastor. I usually ask how long their pastor has been a Christian and if they feel it requires TRUE faith to be a pastor. The answer is almost always yes. If the answer is yes, I follow up with using The Clergy Project as an example.

Me: "Did you know there is a program called the Clergy Project that is for pastors who are atheists now who don't believe anymore, but because they're afraid of the negative effects of coming out as an atheist in their church they keep their identity secretive? They have to seek refuge in this program JUST so they can deal with the stress. These pastors are still preaching to their churches, still talking about things they do not believe anymore. They have to get up every sunday and talk about things they don't believe in. How do you know YOUR pastor isn't one of them? How do you discern someone who is lying to you convincingly, and someone who says what they mean?"

I've had a few friends come back to me bugged to shit about it. A little mental ninja star. Because it is a GOOD POINT. How DO YOU tell the difference between knowing what you believe is true or false and how do you know who is teaching you has sincere intentions or does not?

Anyway. That's a recent thing I've been thinking about.

Moral of the story: If a PASTOR can "fall from his/her faith" and become an atheist, still "speak the word of god" convincingly and people can believe them as if nothing changed, how would someone know what they're being fed isn't a bunch of bullshit?

Always a fun thing to get them to ponder. The no true scottsman fallacy can also often times be an argument from authority since those who feel they have "true faith" feel they are above and beyond the "normal ex believer" - therefore, presenting a larger point of authority in such an argument, and using a good example of questionable trust and faith in even a pastor can sometimes (but not always) get them to think outside the box.
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18-11-2012, 04:04 AM
RE: Tired...
... Take it someone had a go at you ? I don't take any notice these days... nowadays someone calling me sinful / whatever else just earns them a dirty look. Silly buggers.
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18-11-2012, 04:10 AM
RE: Tired...
(18-11-2012 03:53 AM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  
(18-11-2012 03:15 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  Deal with it. We are all tired of something. I am tired of my dead end job sitting here night after fucking night logging in drunken visitors to wastes of flesh until 6am in the morning. Tired of trying to go somewhere and going nowhere, while these shitheads that drink excessively somehow continue to hold down jobs where despite being quite immature make far more money than I do. I wish alcohol would kill within a matter of a year if you drink far too much of it.
What would your job be?


Security at a condo complex where the majority of the residents are scum. Not all, but a very high number.
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18-11-2012, 05:02 AM
 
RE: Tired...
(18-11-2012 03:15 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  Deal with it. We are all tired of something. I am tired of my dead end job sitting here night after fucking night logging in drunken visitors to wastes of flesh until 6am in the morning. Tired of trying to go somewhere and going nowhere, while these shitheads that drink excessively somehow continue to hold down jobs where despite being quite immature make far more money than I do. I wish alcohol would kill within a matter of a year if you drink far too much of it.



Most of them probably aren't atheists either. Shocking

When are you all ever gonig to learn: atheism is self-defeating. The OP can't figure out why people are concerned about her being an atheist or how she became one. It's because they care that you don't become a self-defeating loser. Atheism, no matter how you slice it, leads to a diminished self-esteem. It simply has to. I mean case in point: Bird Guy.
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18-11-2012, 05:10 AM
RE: Tired...
(18-11-2012 05:02 AM)Egor Wrote:  
(18-11-2012 03:15 AM)Birdguy1979 Wrote:  Deal with it. We are all tired of something. I am tired of my dead end job sitting here night after fucking night logging in drunken visitors to wastes of flesh until 6am in the morning. Tired of trying to go somewhere and going nowhere, while these shitheads that drink excessively somehow continue to hold down jobs where despite being quite immature make far more money than I do. I wish alcohol would kill within a matter of a year if you drink far too much of it.



Most of them probably aren't atheists either. Shocking

When are you all ever gonig to learn: atheism is self-defeating. The OP can't figure out why people are concerned about her being an atheist or how she became one. It's because they care that you don't become a self-defeating loser. Atheism, no matter how you slice it, leads to a diminished self-esteem. It simply has to. I mean case in point: Bird Guy.
Baseless assertions followed by an insult. Drinking Beverage

Weren't you supposed to be improving in terms of attitude?

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18-11-2012, 05:14 AM (This post was last modified: 18-11-2012 05:31 AM by Free Thought.)
RE: Tired...
Sir, I would like to see evidence of your assumption that atheism degrades self-esteem.

{redacted}

And lets not forget how many highly religious countries score so high on the UN's Human Development Index

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