To Atheists Who Don't Care
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24-03-2012, 05:50 PM
RE: To Atheists Who Don't Care
(24-03-2012 05:42 PM)TheArcticSage Wrote:  
(24-03-2012 05:20 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  So you think you got the world all figured out? You think you care enough? Really? You do? Well, when you get your PhD, and you become an economics professor and politician, you show me what you are made of.
Nope, I made that mistake when I was 16. I'm not going to become a politician, or a lawyer. There's no point in doing things which will only result in failure. However I have to have some parts of the world figured out, otherwise I'd be lost, but there's always a lot more to learn... we never stop learning.

And Kineo for the love of god, if someone said revolution to you, you wouldn't think about an 'ethical' revolution, you'd think about a revolutionary war. It may be radical yes, but sometimes we can't always sit around and hope things get better on their own.
Really? You'd fit right in with those politicians and lawyers.

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24-03-2012, 05:50 PM
RE: To Atheists Who Don't Care
(24-03-2012 05:42 PM)TheArcticSage Wrote:  
(24-03-2012 05:20 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  So you think you got the world all figured out? You think you care enough? Really? You do? Well, when you get your PhD, and you become an economics professor and politician, you show me what you are made of.
Nope, I made that mistake when I was 16. I'm not going to become a politician, or a lawyer. There's no point in doing things which will only result in failure. However I have to have some parts of the world figured out, otherwise I'd be lost, but there's always a lot more to learn... we never stop learning.

And Kineo for the love of god, if someone said revolution to you, you wouldn't think about an 'ethical' revolution, you'd think about a revolutionary war. It may be radical yes, but sometimes we can't always sit around and hope things get better on their own.
No it wouldn't! It doesn't go hand in hand to everyone in the way you see things. A political/social revolution doesn't have to come from war. You repeatedly make assumptions in your posts such as that one.

I condone the idea of having as much revolution as possible and in a near constant form of revolution. Not a structure of war or constantly political turn over but of the idea that we know if it doesn't happen, the power and wealth will steadily rise up. Saying you need a revolution of war could result in the same situation you had before you began anyway.

I disagree with your idea of not doing anything that will fail but there's no issue with it.. It just goes to show that people who wish to do things more oft than not are ones not afraid of failure getting in the way.
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24-03-2012, 06:00 PM
RE: To Atheists Who Don't Care
(24-03-2012 05:42 PM)TheArcticSage Wrote:  
(24-03-2012 05:20 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  So you think you got the world all figured out? You think you care enough? Really? You do? Well, when you get your PhD, and you become an economics professor and politician, you show me what you are made of.
Nope, I made that mistake when I was 16. I'm not going to become a politician, or a lawyer. There's no point in doing things which will only result in failure. However I have to have some parts of the world figured out, otherwise I'd be lost, but there's always a lot more to learn... we never stop learning.

And Kineo for the love of god, if someone said revolution to you, you wouldn't think about an 'ethical' revolution, you'd think about a revolutionary war. It may be radical yes, but sometimes we can't always sit around and hope things get better on their own.
Then how are you going to help?
A revolutionary war won't make anything better. More bloodshed and problems will rise.
Look at Libya and apparently things aren't looking so good.

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24-03-2012, 06:29 PM
RE: To Atheists Who Don't Care
(24-03-2012 06:00 PM)tazmin98 Wrote:  Then how are you going to help?
A revolutionary war won't make anything better. More bloodshed and problems will rise.
Look at Libya and apparently things aren't looking so good.
OILibya? Well a revolutionary war might not make anything better, but you can't know that until you try it can you? Global Revolution! To begin with I've always had my doubts about the revolutions in North Africa, mainly because the U.S. and the EU are pro at subterfuge. Libya itself is like another Iraq, except without the invasion forces and just the Corporations. We may yet invade Libya, we may yet invade Iran. This entire war is for resources and power.
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24-03-2012, 06:44 PM
RE: To Atheists Who Don't Care
(24-03-2012 05:42 PM)TheArcticSage Wrote:  And Kineo for the love of god, if someone said revolution to you, you wouldn't think about an 'ethical' revolution, you'd think about a revolutionary war. It may be radical yes, but sometimes we can't always sit around and hope things get better on their own.

Only if that someone is you. I knew what you you meant, but I wanted you to make it clear so there was no mistaking that what you want is war.

ClydeLee is right about revolution. There are multiple kinds of revolution, and perpetual revolution could be a good thing, so long as the revolution is moving society toward an improved state. It doesn't require violence, just changing hearts and minds. If you don't see that as happening now, then you're blind. We are no so lost that societal reform is impossible without violence.

I think you have an agenda already on your plate, and you sound as if you're no better than a warmonger.
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24-03-2012, 07:12 PM
RE: To Atheists Who Don't Care
(24-03-2012 06:44 PM)kineo Wrote:  Only if that someone is you. I knew what you you meant, but I wanted you to make it clear so there was no mistaking that what you want is war.

ClydeLee is right about revolution. There are multiple kinds of revolution, and perpetual revolution could be a good thing, so long as the revolution is moving society toward an improved state. It doesn't require violence, just changing hearts and minds. If you don't see that as happening now, then you're blind. We are no so lost that societal reform is impossible without violence.

I think you have an agenda already on your plate, and you sound as if you're no better than a warmonger.
I am not a warmonger, all I want is a little bit of justice in this world where all the murderers and the rapists are executed in a timely manner, that is not asking to much is it? Kineo you don't even know how far the rabbit hole goes do you?
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24-03-2012, 07:40 PM
RE: To Atheists Who Don't Care
(24-03-2012 07:12 PM)TheArcticSage Wrote:  
(24-03-2012 06:44 PM)kineo Wrote:  Only if that someone is you. I knew what you you meant, but I wanted you to make it clear so there was no mistaking that what you want is war.

ClydeLee is right about revolution. There are multiple kinds of revolution, and perpetual revolution could be a good thing, so long as the revolution is moving society toward an improved state. It doesn't require violence, just changing hearts and minds. If you don't see that as happening now, then you're blind. We are no so lost that societal reform is impossible without violence.

I think you have an agenda already on your plate, and you sound as if you're no better than a warmonger.
I am not a warmonger, all I want is a little bit of justice in this world where all the murderers and the rapists are executed in a timely manner, that is not asking to much is it? Kineo you don't even know how far the rabbit hole goes do you?
Well I knew we'd reach this part of the conversation eventually. The rabbit hole.

First let me say that I don't think all conspiracy theories are false, or that all conspiracy theory buffs are crazy or out of line. People conspire- people hide things. This is true from the top to the bottom of every society. I think that there are plenty of people out there discerning enough to find out some of those secrets. And a certain amount of dissent is going to come from that- and it can be healthy for a functioning society, especially where those conspiracies are found to be extremely wretched.

We have multiple people on these forums that think deeply about the issues floating around in the conspiracy theory world. They seem to have a good head on their shoulders. I have my own mistrust of the government and corporations. There is a better way to handle it without violence. But you've already given up on that system, and you've decided that the rest of us should too. You've decided that justice should be served and you want to be a part of that justice. It's war, but it's for a good cause! Because you decided it was a good cause. "Skip past all of that other stuff that maybe could work- it doesn't involve violence. It doesn't mete out the justice I think is due!"

Yet I challenge you on it- and you're going to try to turn that around on me. I don't know enough to decide that we shouldn't have a civil war? That's what you're suggesting. The next words I expect you to say are "sheeple" or "government shill". All because I haven't spent my time steeping my brain in infowars.com.

In my opinion your ideas are not worth discussing any further. I know where you stand, you know where I stand and I don't expect that it will change.
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24-03-2012, 10:39 PM
RE: To Atheists Who Don't Care
(24-03-2012 07:40 PM)kineo Wrote:  Well I knew we'd reach this part of the conversation eventually. The rabbit hole.

First let me say that I don't think all conspiracy theories are false, or that all conspiracy theory buffs are crazy or out of line. People conspire- people hide things. This is true from the top to the bottom of every society. I think that there are plenty of people out there discerning enough to find out some of those secrets. And a certain amount of dissent is going to come from that- and it can be healthy for a functioning society, especially where those conspiracies are found to be extremely wretched.

We have multiple people on these forums that think deeply about the issues floating around in the conspiracy theory world. They seem to have a good head on their shoulders. I have my own mistrust of the government and corporations. There is a better way to handle it without violence. But you've already given up on that system, and you've decided that the rest of us should too. You've decided that justice should be served and you want to be a part of that justice. It's war, but it's for a good cause! Because you decided it was a good cause. "Skip past all of that other stuff that maybe could work- it doesn't involve violence. It doesn't mete out the justice I think is due!"

Yet I challenge you on it- and you're going to try to turn that around on me. I don't know enough to decide that we shouldn't have a civil war? That's what you're suggesting. The next words I expect you to say are "sheeple" or "government shill". All because I haven't spent my time steeping my brain in infowars.com.

In my opinion your ideas are not worth discussing any further. I know where you stand, you know where I stand and I don't expect that it will change.
I don't want a civil war, I want a Revolutionary War, I've only been on the infowars website once, if I hadn't done it that one time I would have absolutely no idea what you were talking about. secondly, I didn't always want a war, I didn't always think that a war would be necessary to change the course which we are headed on, I used to think that voting mattered, I used to think that if that didn't work assembling or rioting would work.

But you see when I became an agnostic at the age of 15 I made a theory to help me find whether a god existed or not, and the theory went along a little something like this, 'no matter what the truth is, the only way you can find it is by being unbiased and looking at both sides equally' but my little rule for myself applies to so much more than a divine being, it applies to everyday life and everything that has or ever will be. So along the way I decided to account for the more important truths in life. One of them was this, why aren't murderers and rapists executed? And no matter how hard I tried I could not make a reasonable answer not to execute them. EVEN when I pitied them. The only reasonable answer there was is that there was no reasonable answer to no execute murderers or rapists, but that the system itself was corrupt. How long did I spend on that little philosophy of execution being right or wrong? about 2 years, then I started wondering, how corrupt was the government in order to allow such a sham exist as their legal system?

So to help me get an idea on just how corrupt the government could possibly be, I looked at conspiracy theories in the EXACT same manner as I did with gods and religions, one of those happened to be the 9/11 conspiracy theory which I reviewed on the 10th anniversary of that day. I had always been suspicious but never really bothered to investigate it, and it turns out I had a very good reason to be suspicious. If the government could pull something like that off and still fool the majority of the people, it was far more corrupt than I had anticipated. The questions I asked after that is where does the corruption come from, I didn't have to look far to see the names of major banking families start to pop up as well as other sources. The question I'm currently asking is how long has it been corrupt for? To which I came across the holocaust a milestone in the how long our society has been corrupted, it also plays a critical role in furthering corrupting our society... but the rabbit hole goes back further than that! To the days of world war I! and even farther still! in 1913! And farther than that!

How far it goes I don't know yet I'm still asking that question, but I know it's pretty big, at least bigger than you seem to think it is. You can't even begin to pry at how big it is because you haven't even found the tracks to follow the rabbit down his little hole. And that's why I absolutely can't stand people who 'don't care'... because they SEE the tracks! And they do nothing. I'm not trying to get you to believe whatever I do. I just want you to follow the rabbit, after you start following it you'll see the things for yourself and can come to your own conclusion.

Since I started following the little rabbit I've discovered things to be far more intricate than I had ever imagined them to be, to the point where voting would do nothing, rioting would only be temporary... the only way to get that damn little rabbit out of his hole, is to shoot it and drag it's rotting corpse out.



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25-03-2012, 05:59 AM
RE: To Atheists Who Don't Care
It is interesting how everyone thinks they see clearly now, once they turn 20.
Got it all figured out, know how the world can work better, happier, fair,...
You see, we all know that stuff isn't going right, and a lot of bad things are happening that wouldn't have to IF everyone would act reasonable.
But people in general are not very reasonable. That has nothing to do with not caring.

When I was 20 I had all these great radical ideas, just like you but in another direction. Know what, at some point you will have to realize that you can't make the world better by writing into a forum.
And in 5 - 10 years you will look back and think "oh yes, I thought I was so wise back then" just like most of us do.

So just like you grew out of diapers, you will grow out of this. Just don't try to force your opinions on others like you are doing it here and right now in this forum. Yes, that's what you are doing, you are not really discussing, you are stating what you think you know and nothing can make you think about that.

If you want to change something, move your ass off your sofa and do something, that would be a good starter. See something is wrong or missing in your environment? Make a plan and act.

"Freedom is the freedom to say that 2+2=4" - George Orwell (in 1984)
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25-03-2012, 06:11 AM
RE: To Atheists Who Don't Care
(25-03-2012 05:59 AM)Leela Wrote:  It is interesting how everyone thinks they see clearly now, once they turn 20.
Got it all figured out, know how the world can work better, happier, fair,...
You see, we all know that stuff isn't going right, and a lot of bad things are happening that wouldn't have to IF everyone would act reasonable.
But people in general are not very reasonable. That has nothing to do with not caring.

When I was 20 I had all these great radical ideas, just like you but in another direction. Know what, at some point you will have to realize that you can't make the world better by writing into a forum.
And in 5 - 10 years you will look back and think "oh yes, I thought I was so wise back then" just like most of us do.

So just like you grew out of diapers, you will grow out of this. Just don't try to force your opinions on others like you are doing it here and right now in this forum. Yes, that's what you are doing, you are not really discussing, you are stating what you think you know and nothing can make you think about that.

If you want to change something, move your ass off your sofa and do something, that would be a good starter. See something is wrong or missing in your environment? Make a plan and act.
Specifically I am not as young as the OP, I'm still young. But I recall when I was the OP's age and also felt similar.

Kind of reminds me of something a biker friend of mine said about racing. Sometimes... I like to think of the actual experiences of life similar to the experiences of riding and learning to ride. You've got the first time a young adult when you think you know more than your parents. Then you get out on your own and realize.... you don't. Then you think you have these wild crazy ideas on how to change things. You go all crazy and go on this wild movement to change things because you think you've got an idea of how it all works. Then you realize..... you don't. So you end up looking at everything you learned prior, that you thought you knew prior, a new perspective, and look to those who obviously have been telling you all along that you don't know shit in hopes you'll learn some shit. Shit! Tongue

I'm at that point where I realize that I don't. But I want to know. I'm at the point where I accept that I don't know shit.

How that riding comparison went...

First 1000 miles... Don't know shit.
Finally rides 5000 miles. Alright, learning some shit.
15,000 miles. I think I'm pretty fast, I know some shit.
30,000 miles. I think I'm the fastest little shit out there.
50,000 miles. Might just be the quickest little shit around here. Definitely knows some shit.
75,000 miles. No one on the street can touch me! Fastest little shit around.

First track day. Slowest little bastard around. Don't know shit.
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