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25-07-2015, 05:21 PM (This post was last modified: 25-07-2015 05:26 PM by Alla.)
To Robby Pants (late responce)
(21-10-2014 06:26 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
Alla Wrote:Test is this:
There is good and evil. By the way how we take evil things and good things in THIS life we either progress(become more like Father) or we destroy ourselves(become like Lucifer).
By having test(CHOICES) we CAN prove to ourselves and to God Heavenly Father that we want to be like Him.
But why do we need to have this test? Why is there evil? Couldn't we just all be like him?
If God created us perfect like He is then He would take away from us moral agency to become like Him. God can not take from us moral agency. Why? taking away from someone his/her moral agency is evil. If God does evil he stops being God the same moment.
Why is the evil? Without evil there is no good. But everything is neutral.
Evil helps us to exersize our moral agency.
(21-10-2014 06:26 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(23-12-2013 02:11 PM)Alla Wrote:  Yes. God obeys eternal laws. All Gods obey eternal laws and that is why they remain to be Gods.
From where do these eternal laws come? What are they?
I guess from nowhere. Eternal has no beginning no end. But to us(people who live on this Earth) eternal laws are coming from God of Israel( from God Father and God Son Jehovah).
There are many eternal laws. We don't even know all of them.
(21-10-2014 06:26 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(23-12-2013 02:11 PM)Alla Wrote:  Do you believe in magic or fairy tails? I don't. To have knowledge without learning is magic/a fairy tail - something that do not exist in REAL world.
Even Gods have to have learning process for may be millions/billons of years before they become Gods.
And when or if we get to heaven we will still continue to learn more before we become Gods/like Gods
Does the Bible or Book of Mormon explicitly state that God cannot give us knowledge, or is this the logical extension of apologetics?
Book of Mormon doesn't have all words/revelations from God. There is no fullness of His Doctrine in one book.
What will happen if you give knowledge of algebra to a 3 year old? He/she won't understand.
God can not give all knowledge to those who will not comprehend it. It would be meaningless.
But if God makes us capable with a magic wand then He will take from us moral agency to choose good - to learn by working hard and by searching diligently.
(21-10-2014 06:26 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(23-12-2013 02:11 PM)Alla Wrote:  In real world real Gods work. If God becomes lazy He or She can not be God anymore.
The point of eternal life or being Gods is to have ETERNAL HAPPINESS.
True and eternal principle is this: when you do something by working hard and then get good results you will have HAPPINESS.
Try to create something beautiful or useful and see how much you will ENJOY your TIME by DOING/creating it. This is the point of eternal life - ENJOY everything fully without any limitations.
ALL earthly things are in image and likeness of ALL heavenly things.

If God created all of the physical universe in six days, the amount of effort it takes him to do things is pretty minimal. Maybe it takes X units of GodPower or something, but based on the source material, he's explicitly pretty powerful. If he literally created all of the plants in the world inside of a day, I don't see how my statement of willing crops into existence instead of growing them has anything to do with "laziness".
Let me put it this way: When God created the universe, did he do it in a lazy way or not?
If yes, then isn't your point moot?
If no, then couldn't God still do vastly world-affecting things with X effort (non-zero) in less than a day and make your point moot?
What is 6 days? Nobody knows how long did exactly one day of creation last. But Prophet Joseph Smith said that it could be billions of years. May be more may be less. And God of Israel didn't created only our universe. He created, creates today and will create forever many worlds. And we don't know how big our universe. God didn't reveal it. God is not lazy. He loves create new things. Don't you? you who is created in His image and likeness.
(21-10-2014 06:26 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(23-12-2013 02:11 PM)Alla Wrote:  what you want to know is a very heavy stuff. But this is what I can tell you.
Our God Father has His God. And that God has His God.
And there is eternal matter that never was created by anybody. And there are eternal laws. And if intelligent beings want to become Gods they have to obey those eternal laws. To be God is to have capacity to take eternal matter and create/organize things.
And our God is not the first God and not the last God. He is the first and the last but ONLY for us and ONLY in His worlds/in the worlds that He creates.
"all-powerful" and "all-knowing", and "the first and the last", "in the beginning" is not absolute thing but relative.
So, I don't know that much about Mormonism. Does it posit an all-powerful God at the top of all the others? Is this something explicitly stated, or is this god's existence or non-existence assumed?
Our God and Creator of this Earth revealed to His Church through His prophets that there are Gods/gods many. It is not assumed by us(LDS).
One of our Hymns which we consider as one of our scriptures says this(a question to you):
if you could hie to Kolob in the twinkling of an eye
and then continue onward with the same speed to fly,
do you think that you could ever, through all eternity,
find out the generation where Gods began to be?

Hmm, good question.....
(21-10-2014 06:26 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(23-12-2013 02:11 PM)Alla Wrote:  That is funny how they call your wife. I also have a question.
How are you planning to teach your kids about God? Will you let her to teach them religious things? Will she let you to teach them atheism?
It is interesting how families solve those problems.
I know it may be very confusing for kids. But I think the best way is to be good examples and teach them to be kind, honest, caring...
My wife is raising them Christian. I'm not really planning on "teaching them atheism". I think they already started out atheist. They're learning Christianity. I plan on teaching them to be critical of the things they learn so they can try to discern things for themselves.

That being said, the older of my two daughters knows I don't believe in God. It's not something she can really wrap her head around, although, I honestly don't think she wraps her head around belief, either. I could tell she had talked to my wife recently when she asked me out of the blue "Daddy, why don't you believe in things you can't see?". She followed that up with telling me how you can feel God in your heart and that's how you know he's real, then asking me "Do you believe now?". It was kind of cute in a way, but at this point, she's just parroting things she's been told.
I have no idea how the two of them will turn out. My wife could be described as a very liberal Christian. She believe everyone will go to heaven, doesn't believe in hell, and is willing to throw out vast portions of the Bible if they don't suit her. My daughters will be getting a pretty watered-down version of Christianity as a result.
I see. There is no big difference between an atheist and a believer as your wife.
So, you guys are very very lucky. Yes

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25-07-2015, 05:23 PM
RE: To Robby Pants (late responce)
Alla, the reason the post doesn't show is because the quote tags are messed up.

Each [ quote ] needs to be matched with a [ /quote ]

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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25-07-2015, 05:24 PM
RE: To Robby Pants (late responce)
(25-07-2015 05:23 PM)morondog Wrote:  Alla, the reason the post doesn't show is because the quote tags are messed up.

Each [ quote ] needs to be matched with a [ /quote ]
thanks, I corrected

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25-07-2015, 05:24 PM
RE: To Robby Pants (late responce)
Welcome back to the forum by the way Smile

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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25-07-2015, 05:30 PM
RE: To Robby Pants (late responce)
(25-07-2015 05:24 PM)morondog Wrote:  Welcome back to the forum by the way Smile
thanks.

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25-07-2015, 05:43 PM
RE: To Robby Pants (late responce)
Wow, welcome back Alla. Where have you been? What promoted this comeback?

Check out my now-defunct atheism blog. It's just a blog, no ads, no revenue, no gods.
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25-07-2015, 05:55 PM
RE: To Robby Pants (late responce)
(25-07-2015 05:43 PM)WillHopp Wrote:  Wow, welcome back Alla. Where have you been? What promoted this comeback?
Thanks. I just remembered this forum today. I decided to check it out and I saw old message from RobbyPants. Today I responded.

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27-07-2015, 05:41 AM
RE: To Robby Pants (late responce)
(25-07-2015 05:21 PM)Alla Wrote:  [quote='RobbyPants' pid='669504' dateline='1413894411']
But why do we need to have this test? Why is there evil? Couldn't we just all be like him?
If God created us perfect like He is then He would take away from us moral agency to become like Him. God can not take from us moral agency. Why? taking away from someone his/her moral agency is evil. If God does evil he stops being God the same moment.
Why is the evil? Without evil there is no good. But everything is neutral.
Evil helps us to exersize our moral agency. [/quote]

I'm not talking about "taking away" moral agency. I'm asking why it was given in the first place.

Why do things need to be "good" in contrast to "evil"? Why can't they just be what we would consider "good" from our frame of reference without any corresponding evil? Sure, it would evaluate as "neutral" from that frame of reference, but why does that matter? Why must we evaluate our goodness in contrast to an evil?

This setup makes it seem like the goodness isn't what is important, but rather that you're doing better than something else.


(25-07-2015 05:21 PM)Alla Wrote:  [quote='RobbyPants' pid='669504' dateline='1413894411']
Does the Bible or Book of Mormon explicitly state that God cannot give us knowledge, or is this the logical extension of apologetics?
Book of Mormon doesn't have all words/revelations from God. There is no fullness of His Doctrine in one book.
What will happen if you give knowledge of algebra to a 3 year old? He/she won't understand.
God can not give all knowledge to those who will not comprehend it. It would be meaningless.
But if God makes us capable with a magic wand then He will take from us moral agency to choose good - to learn by working hard and by searching diligently.

Yeah, but God didn't have to make us like three-year-olds. Either he is powerful or he is not. You said he doesn't want to make us start like him, but could he?
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27-07-2015, 06:31 PM
RE: To Robby Pants (late responce)
(27-07-2015 05:41 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  I'm not talking about "taking away" moral agency. I'm asking why it was given in the first place.
If God Heavenly Father didn't give us our moral agency we(His children) would never become like Him/like God. If we can not be like Him we can not have what Gods have - eternal progression and fullness of joy.
Why can't we be like God if we have no moral agency? The answer is this: Gods have their moral agency. And if we do not have at least one thing that Gods have we can not be like Them.


(27-07-2015 05:41 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Why do things need to be "good" in contrast to "evil"? Why can't they just be what we would consider "good" from our frame of reference without any corresponding evil? Sure, it would evaluate as "neutral" from that frame of reference, but why does that matter? Why must we evaluate our goodness in contrast to an evil?
This setup makes it seem like the goodness isn't what is important, but rather that you're doing better than something else.
If there is no contrast of good and evil or better to say if there is no opposition in all things( I talk about moral things) moral agency is useless.
Not to have moral agency means not to have an opportunity to become like Gods.
(27-07-2015 05:41 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  Yeah, but God didn't have to make us like three-year-olds.
He had to make us like three years old so we can exercise our moral agency to choose learning and growing so we can become Gods.

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27-07-2015, 06:52 PM
RE: To Robby Pants (late responce)
(25-07-2015 05:21 PM)Alla Wrote:  Book of Mormon doesn't have any words/revelations from God.

There. That's better. Drinking Beverage

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