To Robby Pants (late responce)
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
31-07-2015, 08:09 PM
RE: To Robby Pants (late responce)
(31-07-2015 08:01 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(31-07-2015 07:52 PM)Chas Wrote:  He didn't believe it - he was consciously lying. He stood to gain financially from the lie.
I don't deny this possibility. But those who believe him find some drops of the truth.
Otherwise they wouldn't believe him.

Again you might "believe" this but you have also admitted you know not a lot about psychology and humans self deception abilities which are profoundly demonstrated through years of study and testing. So when you have no good reasons to believe things, you should lessen your manner of stating them assertively and certainly. You don't have any evidence to back up your claims unless you provide it.

Humans have the capability of believing something with no notion of truth to it because it gives them "comfort" by giving them an answer instead of an unknown or reducing a fear; Also, sometimes it generates an emotional response to put blame on others. People believing things based on emotional or sensational responses without hints of truth to them at all.

Do you think someone seeing a Shadow in the woods and thinking it's a person with a knife coming after them, when all along it was just tree shadows has truth to it?

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
31-07-2015, 08:13 PM
RE: To Robby Pants (late responce)
(31-07-2015 07:55 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(31-07-2015 07:50 PM)Alla Wrote:  Every false theory, teaching, philosophy has some truth. Where can I read his whole work? I will find you some truth.

Flat earth 'theory' has no truth in it. Phlogiston 'theory' doesn't. Nor does geocentrism.

Also, I linked to Wakefield's paper, it was the final link on my post. The one after the refuting paper.
I didn't mean this kind of theory that can be taught in one sentence. Yes, this kind of theory can be 100% lie.
I will check the link. Thank you.
P.S. I just want to say, if I realize that I am wrong I will tell you.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
31-07-2015, 08:32 PM
RE: To Robby Pants (late responce)
(31-07-2015 08:09 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(31-07-2015 07:57 PM)Alla Wrote:  By the power of the Holy Ghost.Angel
But how can you have this help of the Holy Ghost?
True atheist wouldn't care about it. Do you agree?

Oh I've had the experience of ingesting, chewing, swallowing and regurgitating the Holy Spirit 4 decades ago. You know what it left me with? A keen sense of smell for bullshit. Your sense of smell for bullshit is not even developed let alone refined.
GirlyMan, who told you that the Holy Ghost leaves someone with keen sense of smell?
P.S. You don't have to answer this question.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
31-07-2015, 08:42 PM (This post was last modified: 31-07-2015 08:47 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: To Robby Pants (late responce)
(31-07-2015 08:32 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(31-07-2015 08:09 PM)GirlyMan Wrote:  Oh I've had the experience of ingesting, chewing, swallowing and regurgitating the Holy Spirit 4 decades ago. You know what it left me with? A keen sense of smell for bullshit. Your sense of smell for bullshit is not even developed let alone refined.
GirlyMan, who told you that the Holy Ghost leaves someone with keen sense of smell?
P.S. You don't have to answer this question.

Nobody told me. That's what it did to me. And it is specific to the keen sense of smell of bullshit, not generally. You apparently didn't get as nauseous as me and haven't regurgitated it yet. You will.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
31-07-2015, 08:43 PM
RE: To Robby Pants (late responce)
(31-07-2015 08:01 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(31-07-2015 07:52 PM)Chas Wrote:  He didn't believe it - he was consciously lying. He stood to gain financially from the lie.
I don't deny this possibility. But those who believe him find some drops of the truth.
Otherwise they wouldn't believe him.

That is an unjustified conclusion.

The people who believe him are generally those whose lives have been negatively affected by autism and are looking for something and someone to blame.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
31-07-2015, 08:48 PM
RE: To Robby Pants (late responce)
(31-07-2015 08:01 PM)Alla Wrote:  
(31-07-2015 07:52 PM)Chas Wrote:  He didn't believe it - he was consciously lying. He stood to gain financially from the lie.
I don't deny this possibility. But those who believe him find some drops of the truth.
Otherwise they wouldn't believe him.

All the greatest lies are surrounded with truths. But always remember, at the center of those truths, a lie awaits you.

How can anyone become an atheist when we are all born with no beliefs in the first place? We are atheists because we were born this way.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Free's post
31-07-2015, 08:52 PM
RE: To Robby Pants (late responce)
It's true that some people will lie and attempt to manipulate other people.

That sentence is the only truth you can find in a lie.

The best lies also conveniently can be found mixed in with other true statements and that's how you can manipulate people.

This is why rational justified reasons for holding a belief are so important. People may lie to you. Evidence and peer review examination of that evidence is helpful in obtaining some measure of truth.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-08-2015, 01:12 AM
RE: To Robby Pants (late responce)
(31-07-2015 03:21 PM)Alla Wrote:  Very good point, Dark Phoenix. Very good point. Congratulation on making good points.
Now I have a question: where and when did God ask His children to believe something they can not comprehend?
When did God say: to have faith in eternity and infinity (things you can not comprehend) is absolutely necessary for your immediate welfare? What Scripture does teach this, ex-brother?

(31-07-2015 03:21 PM)Alla Wrote:  Everyone has a right to his/her own opinion. Church of JESUS CHRIST of LDS do not condemn people for their own opinions. I can have my wrong personal opinions and still be a Mormon in good standing.

I don't see how your right to opinions is even relevant. They don't necessarily deserve respect and are not necessarily correct, as you admit. The fact that good standing in Mormonism does not require objective correctness is neither a credit to your argument or the church.

Look, either you live by faith or by evidence. You have been clear that faith is your route, faith and the witness of the holy spirit. If you had evidence, or proof in the same way we understand science, you wouldn't need faith. So, we won't know for certain if we were correct until after we die. We are like the child unable to learn algebra, limited by ignorance. Algebra class doesn't come until the child grows up, and knowing for certain if our faith was justified doesn't come until after we die.

The trouble is, the gospel doesn't allow you to just wait and see. You have to believe now and follow the commandments. You have to become a member, given the opportunity, and remain in good tithing paying, temple attending, standing. You have to accept the church on faith and through a witness from the holy spirit. The consequences of not doing this range anywhere from being separated from god himself, his son, his angels, our families, and at worst all of the above.

So, it isn't that we can't comprehend algebra ever, or objective truth about the universe either. The trouble is religion offers piss poor evidence when it has any, and none at all some of the time. Then it promises impossibly wonderful rewards, and threatens terrible consequences for not operating on faith.

Honestly, this is pretty basic. You can't be serious and tell me you didn't know there were consequences for unbelief, sin, and apostasy in Mormon theology. You must have misunderstood the analogy, or there is some other explanation.

Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, just as it is the spirit of a spiritless situation. The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is required for their real happiness.

-Karl Marx
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like Dark Phoenix's post
01-08-2015, 01:38 PM
RE: To Robby Pants (late responce)
(31-07-2015 07:55 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(31-07-2015 07:50 PM)Alla Wrote:  Every false theory, teaching, philosophy has some truth. Where can I read his whole work? I will find you some truth.

Flat earth 'theory' has no truth in it. Phlogiston 'theory' doesn't. Nor does geocentrism.

Also, I linked to Wakefield's paper, it was the final link on my post. The one after the refuting paper.
OK. I read it. To tell you the truth I need lots of time to study to understand what is the truth and what is not the truth.
In case when even the truth makes no any sense to me I don't need a lie if you want to deceive me.
So when you talk about flat earth theory or about this kind of scientific theory YOU ARE RIGHT(YOU WON this argument)Thumbsup you do not need a drop of the truth in order to deceive.
But if I can understand some truth and you will give it to me you will gain my trust then you will sell me your lie.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
01-08-2015, 01:51 PM
RE: To Robby Pants (late responce)
(01-08-2015 01:12 AM)Dark Phoenix Wrote:  
(31-07-2015 03:21 PM)Alla Wrote:  Very good point, Dark Phoenix. Very good point. Congratulation on making good points.
Now I have a question: where and when did God ask His children to believe something they can not comprehend?
When did God say: to have faith in eternity and infinity (things you can not comprehend) is absolutely necessary for your immediate welfare? What Scripture does teach this, ex-brother?

(31-07-2015 03:21 PM)Alla Wrote:  Everyone has a right to his/her own opinion. Church of JESUS CHRIST of LDS do not condemn people for their own opinions. I can have my wrong personal opinions and still be a Mormon in good standing.

I don't see how your right to opinions is even relevant. They don't necessarily deserve respect and are not necessarily correct, as you admit. The fact that good standing in Mormonism does not require objective correctness is neither a credit to your argument or the church.

Look, either you live by faith or by evidence. You have been clear that faith is your route, faith and the witness of the holy spirit. If you had evidence, or proof in the same way we understand science, you wouldn't need faith. So, we won't know for certain if we were correct until after we die. We are like the child unable to learn algebra, limited by ignorance. Algebra class doesn't come until the child grows up, and knowing for certain if our faith was justified doesn't come until after we die.

The trouble is, the gospel doesn't allow you to just wait and see. You have to believe now and follow the commandments. You have to become a member, given the opportunity, and remain in good tithing paying, temple attending, standing. You have to accept the church on faith and through a witness from the holy spirit. The consequences of not doing this range anywhere from being separated from god himself, his son, his angels, our families, and at worst all of the above.

So, it isn't that we can't comprehend algebra ever, or objective truth about the universe either. The trouble is religion offers piss poor evidence when it has any, and none at all some of the time. Then it promises impossibly wonderful rewards, and threatens terrible consequences for not operating on faith.

Honestly, this is pretty basic. You can't be serious and tell me you didn't know there were consequences for unbelief, sin, and apostasy in Mormon theology. You must have misunderstood the analogy, or there is some other explanation.
I just want to say one more time. God does not require to have faith in something I can not comprehend. If I do not comprehend eternity and infinity I do not have to have faith in it. I do not have to believe it.
It would be very stupid of God to ask me to do something impossible.
If I can not comprehend what faith in Christ means I am not required to act according to what I do not understand.
But if I have faith in Christ because I can comprehend what it means I am required to act according to this faith.
I can say that eternity makes no sense to me and still be Mormon in good standing.

English is my second language.
I AM DEPLORABLE AND IRREDEEMABLE
SHE PERSISTED WE RESISTED
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: