To all fans of TAE / dillahunty
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04-09-2016, 04:53 AM
RE: To all fans of TAE / dillahunty
I know religion has to be debated and discussed and even blasphemed, but having been at this 16 years online, it is the same argument no matter the religion.

I got the right one.
My holy leader says.
My holy writings say.
Science doesn't know everything.
Science points to my club.

Oh and I DO include the religions of Asia and the Orient too. No they are NOT philosophies, they are religions too. I would highly recommend on top of Dawkin's God Delusion, two lesser known books, but equally important.

1. God The Failed Hypothesis, Victor Stenger
2. The New Atheism, Victor Stenger

Especially the second book.Victor says there is no separate but equal, just science. And in the later chapters he tells us our morality isn't coming from any religion but our own evolution. I agree.

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04-09-2016, 04:55 AM
RE: To all fans of TAE / dillahunty
(04-09-2016 04:45 AM)Banjo Wrote:  I actually have little respect for guy like MD. I realised religion was BS at age 4. He's a white belt, I'm a 10th dan. I have no interest in what he or anyone like him has to say.

I have decades on him. He's a beginner.

I do appreciate his efforts though. But to loosely quote Kerouac, "Protesting seems like you want to be famous."


He's still a valuable advocate. He can walk the walk and talk the talk in a way that you, I, or anyone else not raised in such a life would have trouble doing authentically. He doesn't need to fake empathy and understanding with Christians and their world view, because he genuinely used to share it. You know how fake Kirk Cameron comes off when he tries to act like he used to be a rationalist/atheist/skeptic? Dillahunty doesn't suffer that problem, because he was the genuine article. He found his way to atheism by trying to be a better Christian and actually studying the text and the history.

Arguably, he had to work much hard to reach the same conclusions we already share. His atheist is hard won, in a way that mine your yours isn't. Surely, that has to count for something.

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04-09-2016, 04:57 AM
RE: To all fans of TAE / dillahunty
(04-09-2016 04:55 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Surely, that has to count for something.

I'll buy him a sausage.

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04-09-2016, 05:43 AM
RE: To all fans of TAE / dillahunty
(04-09-2016 02:55 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(02-09-2016 06:36 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  My first thought was the Christiano brothers film "A Matter of Faith". Because basically the protagonist debater tags out to have Clarence Gilliard come in, tell the other guy he hates him, insults him, cries, and then walks off stage and "wins". I'll have to watch this debate, it has to be better than that movie...

Have to post his, seeing as how the Christiano Film Group and The Bible Reloaded are right in the middle of litigation at the moment.

Short Story: Someone at Christiano Film Group had abused YouTube's DMCA system in an attempt to shut down their channel and rob them of their livelihood, as they are full time YT content creators. This came months after a previous DMCA claim, which had been resolved, and upon which they thought they had worked out an agreement to stay out of each other's hair. So their content is protected under the Fair Use doctrine, so now they're suing the film group for filing false DMCA's (itself perjury) and for harassment (for making 5 frivolous claims at once in an attempt to shut down their YT channel). They hope to set precedent, making life easier for other content creators.

That would be most excellent. I just can't get over the irony that they'd make a whole film about how their speech as Christian fundamentalists is being stifled by academia, then turn around and try to employ dirty tactics to shut down the free speech of anyone who would criticize their ideas.

Just watched that video critique. Wouldn't it be nice if the Christiano brothers would actually attend (audit? I'm not sure they can actually get into college) an Intro to Biology course and find out what the science professors' arguments really are, what they're actually saying in those classrooms? But of course, as the TBR guys point out, the point of the film is to create a masturbatory fiction which reassures people who've already made their mind up.

It's too bad I didn't go to film school; I think it might be fun to take clips from the film and splice in actual answers from a scientific point of view, so when "Bowlcut McAmishbeard" makes his asshole "is your mom a monkey?" argument, you'd cut to a guy on a similar set responding with a real answer... or hire Night Court Guy to actually respond to the Creationist professor's bullshit, and finally ask the moderator to actually run a debate instead of a sermon...

Here's my question. Since the dad turned the debate over to the Creationist professor... what was he studying through half the film? And why?

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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04-09-2016, 06:01 AM
RE: To all fans of TAE / dillahunty
(03-09-2016 11:15 PM)FrozenSea Wrote:  
(15-08-2016 09:29 AM)unfogged Wrote:  I was very disappointed by Aron's performance.
The topic is poor since it presupposes that a god exists but, even ignoring that, Aron didn't address the question. He argued that god is the source of some things that are bad but that's a separate issue from the main topic.

I don't understand your point there. If someone makes a universal claim like "God is the source of all that is good" (which John Lepp was making by arguing for the affirmative of the debate topic), and you want to make a counterargument, one only needs to demonstrate the existence of the negation of the original claim, e.g., the existence of a thing that came from God that is not good.

How would you have wanted Aron to engage the debate?

The negation of the clam that "god is the source of all that is good" is that
"there is good that can be attributed to another source" and not "god is not the source of anything bad". He could also have taken the approach that the source of some good is unknown and that attributing it to the god is unwarranted.

The claim "god is the source of all that is good" does not rule out that the god could also be the source of all that is bad. If the claim had been "god is a source of only good" then Aron's argument would have merit. As it stands he attacked a strawman version of the claim.

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04-09-2016, 06:47 AM
RE: To all fans of TAE / dillahunty
(04-09-2016 04:57 AM)Banjo Wrote:  
(04-09-2016 04:55 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Surely, that has to count for something.

I'll buy him a sausage.

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04-09-2016, 11:52 AM
RE: To all fans of TAE / dillahunty
(04-09-2016 06:01 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(03-09-2016 11:15 PM)FrozenSea Wrote:  I don't understand your point there. If someone makes a universal claim like "God is the source of all that is good" (which John Lepp was making by arguing for the affirmative of the debate topic), and you want to make a counterargument, one only needs to demonstrate the existence of the negation of the original claim, e.g., the existence of a thing that came from God that is not good.

How would you have wanted Aron to engage the debate?

The negation of the clam that "god is the source of all that is good" is that
"there is good that can be attributed to another source" and not "god is not the source of anything bad". He could also have taken the approach that the source of some good is unknown and that attributing it to the god is unwarranted.

The claim "god is the source of all that is good" does not rule out that the god could also be the source of all that is bad. If the claim had been "god is a source of only good" then Aron's argument would have merit. As it stands he attacked a strawman version of the claim.

Formally, the negation of "god is the source of all that is good" is "it is not the case that god is the source of all that is good", and "there is good that can be attributed to another source" is one way of demonstrating that negation. I don't think that distinction is that important though.

Concerning the "god is not the source of anything bad" and "god is a source of only good" statements, I think for a Christian to argue for anything other than those two statements being true would be a departure from what many Christians, at least in the Calvinist arena of Christian thought, would hold true about the nature of God. This article makes it seem like a no-brainer that God is not the source of anything that is not good, but Ecclesiastes 7:14 seems to contradict that.

So I guess I'm only disagreeing with your criticism of Aron's debate strategy within a Calvinist theology.
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04-09-2016, 05:51 PM (This post was last modified: 04-09-2016 07:32 PM by Shai Hulud.)
RE: To all fans of TAE / dillahunty
(04-09-2016 02:55 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  
(02-09-2016 06:36 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  My first thought was the Christiano brothers film "A Matter of Faith". Because basically the protagonist debater tags out to have Clarence Gilliard come in, tell the other guy he hates him, insults him, cries, and then walks off stage and "wins". I'll have to watch this debate, it has to be better than that movie...

Have to post his, seeing as how the Christiano Film Group and The Bible Reloaded are right in the middle of litigation at the moment.





Short Story: Someone at Christiano Film Group had abused YouTube's DMCA system in an attempt to shut down their channel and rob them of their livelihood, as they are full time YT content creators. This came months after a previous DMCA claim, which had been resolved, and upon which they thought they had worked out an agreement to stay out of each other's hair. So their content is protected under the Fair Use doctrine, so now they're suing the film group for filing false DMCA's (itself perjury) and for harassment (for making 5 frivolous claims at once in an attempt to shut down their YT channel). They hope to set precedent, making life easier for other content creators.
Plus the Christiano bros have supposedly been doing the same to everyone who negatively reviews their films, but never to any positive reviews. 78k of their goal so far.

Edit:
(04-09-2016 05:43 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(04-09-2016 02:55 AM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  Have to post his, seeing as how the Christiano Film Group and The Bible Reloaded are right in the middle of litigation at the moment.

Short Story: Someone at Christiano Film Group had abused YouTube's DMCA system in an attempt to shut down their channel and rob them of their livelihood, as they are full time YT content creators. This came months after a previous DMCA claim, which had been resolved, and upon which they thought they had worked out an agreement to stay out of each other's hair. So their content is protected under the Fair Use doctrine, so now they're suing the film group for filing false DMCA's (itself perjury) and for harassment (for making 5 frivolous claims at once in an attempt to shut down their YT channel). They hope to set precedent, making life easier for other content creators.

That would be most excellent. I just can't get over the irony that they'd make a whole film about how their speech as Christian fundamentalists is being stifled by academia, then turn around and try to employ dirty tactics to shut down the free speech of anyone who would criticize their ideas.

Just watched that video critique. Wouldn't it be nice if the Christiano brothers would actually attend (audit? I'm not sure they can actually get into college) an Intro to Biology course and find out what the science professors' arguments really are, what they're actually saying in those classrooms? But of course, as the TBR guys point out, the point of the film is to create a masturbatory fiction which reassures people who've already made their mind up.

It's too bad I didn't go to film school; I think it might be fun to take clips from the film and splice in actual answers from a scientific point of view, so when "Bowlcut McAmishbeard" makes his asshole "is your mom a monkey?" argument, you'd cut to a guy on a similar set responding with a real answer... or hire Night Court Guy to actually respond to the Creationist professor's bullshit, and finally ask the moderator to actually run a debate instead of a sermon...

Here's my question. Since the dad turned the debate over to the Creationist professor... what was he studying through half the film? And why?
I think he was studying the stuff from Super Evangelical Evan...who gave him "Biblical Science" materials that turned out to probably be from Answers in Genesis and deny evolution. And agree totally on the debate needing twerked to be an actual debate rather than a sermon...like it would've been nice if they talked about evolution during their evolution debate, rather than the existence of God, and jokes like "If the stars were arranged to spell out the truth, Professor Kaman would claim it was those clever Baptists".

Need to think of a witty signature.
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04-09-2016, 06:04 PM
RE: To all fans of TAE / dillahunty
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NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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