To theists only: is it reasonable for a theist to sin?
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16-01-2017, 06:57 PM
RE: To theists only: is it reasonable for a theist to sin?
(15-01-2017 11:51 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(15-01-2017 09:46 PM)Wallisddj Wrote:  Allow me to quibble. By statement, I believe you are inferring that I made a declaration. I described my impression. As to the "strawman," I would kindly ask you to review the comments I received upon my first post, which was to a poster who I believed was a theist. That post, by the way, was not directed at anyone else in particular.

Amigo, you said that you had formed the impression that atheists in general on this site believed a lot of strawmen on religion, theism and theologians. When challenged you claim that the problem is with my understanding of your post? I'm not particularly interested in who said what to you, an answer to my question would be as follows:
  • Most atheists on this site seem to believe that religion is an invented fairytale. This is in fact a strawman. Religion has complex roots. Blah blah etc.
  • As evidence for the fact that this is a strawman I can cite the following: Point 1. God said to the Hebrews... etc.

We could then have a discussion.

Quote:I hope that you will appreciate my confusion with the bombardment of replies along with the nitpicking of each sentence. I mean, who does that? Here, I guess. Sentences are supposed to be supportive of the paragraph which is supposed to convey a single thought or idea.

Yes, I am aware that many atheists were once theists. I wasn't born yesterday. In fact, many theologians end up being more atheistic.

Point to include: I wasn't the first poster to use the words "preaching" and "sermonizing." Curious, no?
Well forgive a little flamboyance in language. I just get tired of people rocking up and telling us what's wrong with us is all. I have no idea what your guff about sentences and so forth is supposed to mean.

Okay. I accept your strawman. But just because I have a first impression does not constitute judgment.

Just as your statement: "I just get tired of people rocking up and telling us what's wrong with us is all." can appear as if you judged me from the first post. It is what all of us do. We get an impression, we form an image in our mind, and we made a judgment. Normal.

Let me set the record straight. I really don't care what any of you think or believe (or not believe). We are all individuals here. Respect is accepting that whatever a person chooses to believe is that person's right. What is not right is for someone to, like you stated, "rocking up and telling" you "what's wrong with" you all.

If I want to change your mind about something, then I should bring to the table a convincing argument whereby all the pros and cons can be laid out, picked over, fought over, et al. But with religion, while I will roll up my sleeves and go toe-to-toe, nose-to-nose with other theologians and the so-called religious elite, I am not going to do that with the average person on the street.
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17-01-2017, 12:04 AM
RE: To theists only: is it reasonable for a theist to sin?
(16-01-2017 06:57 PM)Wallisddj Wrote:  Okay. I accept your strawman. But just because I have a first impression does not constitute judgment.
Are you then retracting the claim that we believe a lot of strawmen about religion, theism and theologians? Just to be clear and pedantic.

Quote:Just as your statement: "I just get tired of people rocking up and telling us what's wrong with us is all." can appear as if you judged me from the first post. It is what all of us do. We get an impression, we form an image in our mind, and we made a judgment. Normal.

Let me set the record straight. I really don't care what any of you think or believe (or not believe). We are all individuals here. Respect is accepting that whatever a person chooses to believe is that person's right. What is not right is for someone to, like you stated, "rocking up and telling" you "what's wrong with" you all.

If I want to change your mind about something, then I should bring to the table a convincing argument whereby all the pros and cons can be laid out, picked over, fought over, et al. But with religion, while I will roll up my sleeves and go toe-to-toe, nose-to-nose with other theologians and the so-called religious elite, I am not going to do that with the average person on the street.
So... I'm battling to get the point of this? If you and I or other atheist non-theologians are not going to have a discussion... why here and not a theologians forum?

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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17-01-2017, 01:46 AM
RE: To theists only: is it reasonable for a theist to sin?
(16-01-2017 06:51 PM)Wallisddj Wrote:  As my imagination ranges far and wide, I have wondered why I was born an American. Why not some other place?

I guess it had something to do with your parents.

Quote:There are theories that espouse that before we come back into a life, we get to "pick and choose" between different possibilities.

Theories? Big Grin As in a coherent group of propositions formulated to explain a group of facts or phenomena in the natural world and repeatedly confirmed through experiment or observation.

Sullying word theory with absurd woo is just silly.

Quote:Another theory is that one comes back in the area where one died.

Another theory you say? Some evidence to back it up would be good. Experiments would take to long in this case I guess.

Quote:I haven't the foggiest idea.

It shows.

Quote:What can be upsetting to me is the dreaded "hell" of having to learn from scratch all over again. To me, that is wasteful and unproductive.

No reason for being upset as there is no indication of being reborn in another body. Death is final it seems, despite believers ridiculous claims to the contrary.

The first revolt is against the supreme tyranny of theology, of the phantom of God. As long as we have a master in heaven, we will be slaves on earth.

Mikhail Bakunin.
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17-01-2017, 02:54 AM
RE: To theists only: is it reasonable for a theist to sin?
(17-01-2017 12:04 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(16-01-2017 06:57 PM)Wallisddj Wrote:  Okay. I accept your strawman. But just because I have a first impression does not constitute judgment.
Are you then retracting the claim that we believe a lot of strawmen about religion, theism and theologians? Just to be clear and pedantic.

Quote:Just as your statement: "I just get tired of people rocking up and telling us what's wrong with us is all." can appear as if you judged me from the first post. It is what all of us do. We get an impression, we form an image in our mind, and we made a judgment. Normal.

Let me set the record straight. I really don't care what any of you think or believe (or not believe). We are all individuals here. Respect is accepting that whatever a person chooses to believe is that person's right. What is not right is for someone to, like you stated, "rocking up and telling" you "what's wrong with" you all.

If I want to change your mind about something, then I should bring to the table a convincing argument whereby all the pros and cons can be laid out, picked over, fought over, et al. But with religion, while I will roll up my sleeves and go toe-to-toe, nose-to-nose with other theologians and the so-called religious elite, I am not going to do that with the average person on the street.
So... I'm battling to get the point of this? If you and I or other atheist non-theologians are not going to have a discussion... why here and not a theologians forum?

I never made a claim. You keep insisting that I made a claim. Sorry. Didn't.
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17-01-2017, 02:57 AM
RE: To theists only: is it reasonable for a theist to sin?
(17-01-2017 02:54 AM)Wallisddj Wrote:  
(17-01-2017 12:04 AM)morondog Wrote:  Are you then retracting the claim that we believe a lot of strawmen about religion, theism and theologians? Just to be clear and pedantic.

So... I'm battling to get the point of this? If you and I or other atheist non-theologians are not going to have a discussion... why here and not a theologians forum?

I never made a claim. You keep insisting that I made a claim. Sorry. Didn't.

I don't see a discussion, to be frank. [not that my name is ever Frank]
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17-01-2017, 03:36 AM
RE: To theists only: is it reasonable for a theist to sin?
(17-01-2017 02:57 AM)Wallisddj Wrote:  
(17-01-2017 02:54 AM)Wallisddj Wrote:  I never made a claim. You keep insisting that I made a claim. Sorry. Didn't.

I don't see a discussion, to be frank. [not that my name is ever Frank]

Rolleyes Christ man. Let's start from the beginning.

You, a random stranger, rock up to an atheist forum.
You say "I'm starting to form a picture of you guys, you seem to believe a lot of incorrect things about religion, theism and theologians".
I say "What things?"
You say "Well some dude was rude to me in my intro thread".

I say "WTF?"
You say "I accept your strawman. Incidentally I don't want to discuss religion with you people-off-the-street, I want to 'roll up my sleeves and go toe-to-toe, nose-to-nose with other theologians and the so-called religious elite' "
I say "1. What does 'I accept your strawman' mean? 2. Why are you here then, if not to discuss with us?"
You say "I never made a claim about strawmen and I don't see a discussion".

I mean... it's like... a chatbot only weirder. About the only way this could get more spaced out is if we introduce sex into the conversation.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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17-01-2017, 04:00 AM
RE: To theists only: is it reasonable for a theist to sin?
(17-01-2017 03:36 AM)morondog Wrote:  About the only way this could get more spaced out is if we introduce sex into the conversation.

[Image: 3fc4575b8e515b9a6563cfa78f238423.jpg]

That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.”
-P.C. Hodgell - Seeker’s Mask - Kirien
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