To train up a child
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20-11-2013, 02:38 PM
RE: To train up a child
(20-11-2013 02:34 PM)guitar_nut Wrote:  Here's what I have a problem with in the book. These are direct citations:

When the baby bit, she pulled hair (an alternative has to be sought for baldheaded babies). Understand, the baby is not being punished, just conditioned.
Conditioned. Punished. It's semantics. It's an infant, and you are causing it deliberate pain. I wonder what the 'alternative' is for bald headed babies... Unsure

Remember, Pearl does not advocate striking with the hand (so PJ's finger flick is not following the rules). Hands are for love and kindness, thus his instructions to use a rod to inflict pain. Yes, pain is the actual word.

At four months she was too unknowing to be punished for disobedience. But for her own good, we attempted to train her not to climb the stairs by coordinating the voice command of "No" with little spats on the bare legs. The switch was a twelve-inch long, one-eighth-inch diameter sprig from a willow tree.
Again, using pain as a training stimulus on a 4 month old. Is this necessary? How useful is this, really?

She then administers about ten slow, patient licks on his bare legs. He cries in pain. If he continues to show defiance by jerking around and defending himself, or by expressing anger, then she will wait a moment and again lecture him and again spank him. When it is obvious he is totally broken, she will hand him the rag and very calmly say, "Johnny, clean up your mess."
Inflict pain until 'totally broken.'

After about ten acts of stubborn defiance, followed by ten switchings, he surrendered his will to one higher than himself.
Dominance through pain.

Show them examples. Expose them to death--the death of a pet, or an accident victim. This must be done with calm, confident reverence, not with fear. Don't be excessive. One or two examples to a three-year-old is enough.
Show a three-year-old an accident victim. Did you do this?

If he is roughed-up by his peers, rejoice; he is learning early about the real world. Don't make a sissy out of him. If you jump to his defense every time another child takes away a toy, pushes your child down, or even pops him in the nose, you will rear a social crybaby.
I can name several kids I went to high school with who were mercilessly picked on and harmed by bigger kids. Two committed suicide. What did they learn? That a pack of 200 pound meat heads will always dominate a small skinny kid. There are some battles kids cannot win and should not have to fight alone.

And finally, Mr. Pearl has no formal degree or training in child development. PJ, I bet you didn't show your toddler an accident victim or hit them with a switch 100 times (ten sets of ten, people) to 'break' them. I bet if your kid got beat up every week for years (happened at my school), you wouldn't tell him to 'toughen up.'

Come on... this book has some serious flaws, the least of which is the fact that Pearl has no formal training in child psychology. Don't be so obtuse.

The finger flick does follow the "rules". It was not designed to cause pain, only stimulus.

You are jumping ahead, though. I'm not ready to talk more about other methods until I get some critical, honest feedback about the VCR training.

PS. A little teaser, though, my wife breastfed our babies and was happy to know how to stop them from biting her nipples!
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20-11-2013, 02:40 PM
RE: To train up a child
(20-11-2013 02:25 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  I neither ignored the questions nor do I back down regarding the incensed paraoxyms atheists went into when I suggested I both followed the Pearl's more biblical methods and saw good fruit with my kids.

You used a rod on your kids? Also, I must have missed it. How do you define abuse?

(20-11-2013 02:25 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  And the biblical prediction is that people would lash out in anger against goodness, moral uprightness, biblical precepts, etc. You are being disingenuous. There's no reason--none--for me to say to someone in a non passive agressive manner, "God loves you" and get back the "f God concept, f you pj, f your mother, I hate you, you're a jerk" - no reason at all.

I'm being disingenuous? Hah! Your bible simply names an old human behavior. Here, have some examples from my personal experience and tell me what the reason for these might be:

"Go Packers!"
"Fuck you, you fucking cheesehead. The packers suck, sit the fuck down."
Disclaimer: no longer a Packers fan.

"I drive a Ford."
"Fuck you and fuck your car. Chevy rules."

"What do you believe?"
"I'm an atheist."
"What, so you worship evolution and that asshole Dawkins? You're going to burn in hell."

Cheers!

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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20-11-2013, 02:41 PM
RE: To train up a child
Decent people don't even train their dogs with these methods.

And one point that I would like explained...why did the all-knowing god set it up so that babies would start teething while still at nursing age? And then dictate that the baby should have its hair pulled if it starts progressing from sucking to chewing action as is required (and instinctual) to continue to take nourishment.

This is poor planning for such a wonderful creator.

I'm not anti-social. I'm pro-solitude. Sleepy
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20-11-2013, 02:47 PM
Photo RE: To train up a child
(20-11-2013 02:38 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  The finger flick does follow the "rules". It was not designed to cause pain, only stimulus.

You don't follow the rules at all, thankfully. The specific word Pearl uses, over and over, is pain. And you're supposed to use an object, not your hand, to inflict this 'stimulus.' But good on you for not hitting your toddler with a switch... which is EXACTLY what Pearl recommends.

(20-11-2013 02:38 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  You are jumping ahead, though. I'm not ready to talk more about other methods until I get some critical, honest feedback about the VCR training.

I liked your VCR training. Tongue

(20-11-2013 02:38 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  PS. A little teaser, though, my wife breastfed our babies and was happy to know how to stop them from biting her nipples!

[Image: 8131408032_68b29ae6a8_z.jpg]

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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20-11-2013, 02:51 PM
RE: To train up a child
Baby - breastfeeding, needs satisfied, warm and calm, listening to mom's heartbeat and taking in the smell of her. Close enough for underdeveloped eyes to make out the face of the person that they should feel closest to. Loving, natural, bonding moment.

Baby - starts chewing motion not realizing that since cutting teeth the rules have changed. Hair is pulled - pain.

Forever linked - pain and pleasure.

Loving parent fail.

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20-11-2013, 02:53 PM
RE: To train up a child
(20-11-2013 02:41 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Decent people don't even train their dogs with these methods.

And one point that I would like explained...why did the all-knowing god set it up so that babies would start teething while still at nursing age? And then dictate that the baby should have its hair pulled if it starts progressing from sucking to chewing action as is required (and instinctual) to continue to take nourishment.

This is poor planning for such a wonderful creator.

1. A human child has a much stronger will than a dog. Litters do not keep their parents up all night every ten minutes.

2. Asking why God allows testing scenarios is a first cousin, to me, of asking why anyone tests anyone for any reason. And there are reasons.
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20-11-2013, 02:53 PM
RE: To train up a child
(20-11-2013 02:38 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  PS. A little teaser, though, my wife breastfed our babies and was happy to know how to stop them from biting her nipples!

Funny when I breastfed my sons, and they bit me, I simply removed them from my breast. I didn't need to pull hair or flick them. Like I said resorting to that type of stimulus or pain, is just lazy parenting.

There are much far more effective ways of dealing with a biting baby while they nurse.

Just like there are far more effective ways of dealing with misbehaving older children. Those ways require far more work...


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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20-11-2013, 02:54 PM
RE: To train up a child
(20-11-2013 02:47 PM)guitar_nut Wrote:  
(20-11-2013 02:38 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  The finger flick does follow the "rules". It was not designed to cause pain, only stimulus.

You don't follow the rules at all, thankfully. The specific word Pearl uses, over and over, is pain. And you're supposed to use an object, not your hand, to inflict this 'stimulus.' But good on you for not hitting your toddler with a switch... which is EXACTLY what Pearl recommends.

(20-11-2013 02:38 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  You are jumping ahead, though. I'm not ready to talk more about other methods until I get some critical, honest feedback about the VCR training.

I liked your VCR training. Tongue

(20-11-2013 02:38 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  PS. A little teaser, though, my wife breastfed our babies and was happy to know how to stop them from biting her nipples!

[Image: 8131408032_68b29ae6a8_z.jpg]

You do know that some normal parents spank their kids, and that spanking makes kids cry (sometimes)? Spanking can be instructive or abusive. So can Bible study. So can visiting TTA. So can most anything. Context, my brother, context.

And this Tongue makes me uncertain--did you really like my VCR training?
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20-11-2013, 02:58 PM
RE: To train up a child
(20-11-2013 02:53 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(20-11-2013 02:41 PM)Anjele Wrote:  Decent people don't even train their dogs with these methods.

And one point that I would like explained...why did the all-knowing god set it up so that babies would start teething while still at nursing age? And then dictate that the baby should have its hair pulled if it starts progressing from sucking to chewing action as is required (and instinctual) to continue to take nourishment.

This is poor planning for such a wonderful creator.

1. A human child has a much stronger will than a dog. Litters do not keep their parents up all night every ten minutes.
2. Asking why God allows testing scenarios is a first cousin, to me, of asking why anyone tests anyone for any reason. And there are reasons.

Abuse is okay so mom and dad can get their sleep even though they have a newborn. What's that chapter and verse?

I'm not anti-social. I'm pro-solitude. Sleepy
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20-11-2013, 02:59 PM
RE: To train up a child
I was to ever hate anyone. These Pearl people would be some of the number 1 contenders.

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