To train up a child
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21-11-2013, 11:33 AM
RE: To train up a child
(21-11-2013 10:45 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(21-11-2013 10:09 AM)Chas Wrote:  That is one of your more idiotic non-responses and attempts at deflection.

Try again.

No, that was my attempt at humor. Although I do find Dawkins's writing torturous to wade through. I much prefer Hitchens. Now THERE was a great intellect.

200,000 (?) copies have been sold. The book gets passed to even more people as lending copies.

Certainly, I'm grieved to learn that six children have died. Certainly, I give the book out but not to psychos (as far as I know)! I'm sure we can both think of things that millions use safely and others abuse. It's amazing how helpful tools like paint, glue and cough medicine can be used as narcotics, right?

Where do you stand on free speech in general, hate speech and protected speech?

Another dishonest attempt at deflection? Seriously, PJ, your efforts are transparent.

Answer the question. Why do you continue to hand out a torture manual?

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Science is not a subject, but a method.
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21-11-2013, 12:35 PM
RE: To train up a child
(21-11-2013 08:18 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(20-11-2013 04:34 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  Funny....again, I never moved anything and didn't bother locking cabinets either. Chemicals were put high up, when the boys were super small. I also don't constantly supervise my kids. There were "safe" areas the kids would play without worry. Again, all achieved without spanking. The kids always held a grown up's hand when walking anywhere in public. Never allowed to bounce on the bed (my husband works in a hospital and has taken waaay too many X-rays of kids injured from jumping on the bed). Anytime we left the house toys were cleaned up. Beds are made daily. Rooms are naturally kept tidy, dirty clothing is put in the hamper (or it's not washed). Plenty of play tho, soccer, boy scouts, arts and crafts...camping in the woods...playing with friends.

The only place I routinely worried about my kids when they were very small, was at my husband's grandma's home. She would drop pills on the floor.

Spanking and most of the things described by the pearls are simply lazy,

Have you spoken with Christian parents who 8 times a day at times sit the child down, lovingly and patiently tell the child what they've done wrong, get the child's response, then patiently and without a trace of anger spank? It's a lot of work and a lot of patience. If one is angry and wants to spank, one simply does not spank. It's a LOT of work.

We agree that parenting accurately is a LOT of work but is worth it both for what it teaches us about love and the fruit we see in the children.

Wow you spank your kid 8 times a day?

My method worked fine without spanking and it certainly didn't happen no 8 times a day...Maybe ONCE.

For the record I know several christian types who refuse to spank. I think you're the one defending a poor practice.

Since you are not interested in learning anything about positive parenting. I'll just disengage from this conversation since it's become quite circular and again you demonstrate inherently flawed logic.


God is a concept by which we measure our pain -- John Lennon

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21-11-2013, 12:39 PM (This post was last modified: 21-11-2013 12:46 PM by Stevil.)
RE: To train up a child
(21-11-2013 08:27 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Spanking is for toddlers who can talk and willfully tell a parent "No!"
You physically torture kids because you don't want them to have any power?

I teach my kids that they themselves must be respected, that No! means No!
That their bodies are their own and no-one can force them to hug, or kiss, or touch if they don't want to be hugged, kissed or touched.
No! means No!

No is a very important word and needs to be part of everyone's vocabulary.
What kind of parent would make their child scared to say "No"?
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21-11-2013, 01:39 PM
RE: To train up a child
(21-11-2013 11:08 AM)Lightvader Wrote:  Why the hell did you give a book that you don't support to others??
I'm not going to criticize your pparrenting method,becouse i do not have no children.

And you seriously need to work on yer communication skills. Because first,you said you suppport the book and used the methods. Then,you say the pearls take it too far.

They do the right things but most Christians I know wouldn't do it to the degree that they trained...
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21-11-2013, 01:41 PM
RE: To train up a child
(21-11-2013 11:12 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(21-11-2013 10:58 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  To move to a higher position; elevate: raised the loads with a crane.
To increase in intensity, degree, strength, or pitch: raised his voice.
To improve in rank or dignity; promote: raised her to management level.

We can use raise, teach or train--they are synonyms. We are being proactive as opposed to reactive. How do you stop your children when they are misbehaving? I'm not judging you, I'm asking.

We tried to get the verbal assent first with "Look at mommy. Please stop now." and then there would be discipline. We're talking 95% of the time the verbal was plenty and no need to go to stage 2.

What is your go-to routine here? Thanks.

I don't have children. Yet. I will be flexible with my parenting as to what works and what doesn't. I will lose my temper, I will make mistakes. I will treat my child as an individual and not as a mini-me. I will respect my child as a person, and I won't pretend to have all the answers because of what someone else told me (read: bible).

I will teach my children, above all, to think for themselves. To question, and NOT to obey simply because someone told them to. Not even mommy and daddy.

The best gift my parents gave me was to respect my inquisitive mind and explained to me why they were asking me to do something. "It's the rule" was never an answer. They explained why it was a rule. And even though they were religious, "because god said so" was never an acceptable answer to them either.

We aren't talking about me, though. We are talking about this horrendous book and you endorsement thereof. Stay on point please.

Objection, your honor. I'm on point. My worldview touches my endorsement and your worldview, your disavowal.

I likewise above all teach my children to think for themselves. So we agree just not on theology.
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21-11-2013, 01:42 PM
RE: To train up a child
(21-11-2013 11:33 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(21-11-2013 10:45 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  No, that was my attempt at humor. Although I do find Dawkins's writing torturous to wade through. I much prefer Hitchens. Now THERE was a great intellect.

200,000 (?) copies have been sold. The book gets passed to even more people as lending copies.

Certainly, I'm grieved to learn that six children have died. Certainly, I give the book out but not to psychos (as far as I know)! I'm sure we can both think of things that millions use safely and others abuse. It's amazing how helpful tools like paint, glue and cough medicine can be used as narcotics, right?

Where do you stand on free speech in general, hate speech and protected speech?

Another dishonest attempt at deflection? Seriously, PJ, your efforts are transparent.

Answer the question. Why do you continue to hand out a torture manual?

Isn't that a loaded question? It's a moot question. It's not a torture manual, it's a guidebook for training children using all-but-forgotten-in-the-modern-era biblical principles. Why do you still recommend Dawkins when you know he's full of hot air? Why were you a mod here when you know deep down there's a god?

See what I mean by loaded questions?
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21-11-2013, 01:45 PM
RE: To train up a child
(21-11-2013 12:35 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  
(21-11-2013 08:18 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Have you spoken with Christian parents who 8 times a day at times sit the child down, lovingly and patiently tell the child what they've done wrong, get the child's response, then patiently and without a trace of anger spank? It's a lot of work and a lot of patience. If one is angry and wants to spank, one simply does not spank. It's a LOT of work.

We agree that parenting accurately is a LOT of work but is worth it both for what it teaches us about love and the fruit we see in the children.

Wow you spank your kid 8 times a day?

My method worked fine without spanking and it certainly didn't happen no 8 times a day...Maybe ONCE.

For the record I know several christian types who refuse to spank. I think you're the one defending a poor practice.

Since you are not interested in learning anything about positive parenting. I'll just disengage from this conversation since it's become quite circular and again you demonstrate inherently flawed logic.

That's a rarity, 8 times. It was a response to your saying "it's easy". We both know parenting is likely the toughest, most valuable things we can do.

Before you leave the conversation, you have to do some subjective measuring. My kids are EXCEPTIONALLY, FULLY, WELL BEHAVED and respectful, etc. I'm tolerant and understanding of Christians who don't discipline their kids. Hey, some of them grew up in an abusive, violent household--it's still harder for them then it would be for me. But their kids... I'm saying the Bible says do X for X result and Y usually leads to Y result.
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21-11-2013, 01:47 PM
RE: To train up a child
The book clearly states to use pain for dominance via a 'rod' or other switch-like tool.
The book clearly states that bullied children should be left to their own means.
The book clearly states that any action, other than dominance through pain, is failure... even something as simple as moving an object away from a toddler.
The book clearly states you show a three-year-old an accident victim to leave an impression.
Pearl has no degree in child psychology.

You haven't claimed to do any of these things (other than pull an infant's hair...), yet your kids turned out great. Perhaps advice like using a switch and showing kids accident victims isn't not necessary for a positive outcome.

Why are you handing this book out?

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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21-11-2013, 01:47 PM
RE: To train up a child
(21-11-2013 12:39 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(21-11-2013 08:27 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Spanking is for toddlers who can talk and willfully tell a parent "No!"
You physically torture kids because you don't want them to have any power?

I teach my kids that they themselves must be respected, that No! means No!
That their bodies are their own and no-one can force them to hug, or kiss, or touch if they don't want to be hugged, kissed or touched.
No! means No!

No is a very important word and needs to be part of everyone's vocabulary.
What kind of parent would make their child scared to say "No"?

Stevil,

We never bring shame on a child who is exploring their body or masturbating. That is not punishable by spanking in my home. That is a discussion only or verbal no, don't do that for younger ones. Period.

My children weren't scared to say no. They were instructed/trained not to shout it at us like we're they're employees at the water cooler.
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21-11-2013, 01:50 PM
RE: To train up a child
(21-11-2013 01:47 PM)guitar_nut Wrote:  The book clearly states to use pain for dominance via a 'rod' or other switch-like tool.
The book clearly states that bullied children should be left to their own means.
The book clearly states that any action, other than dominance through pain, is failure... even something as simple as moving an object away from a toddler.
The book clearly states you show a three-year-old an accident victim to leave an impression.
Pearl has no degree in child psychology.

You haven't claimed to do any of these things (other than pull an infant's hair... :shockingSmile, yet your kids turned out great. Perhaps advice like using a switch and showing kids accident victims isn't not necessary for a positive outcome.

Why are you handing this book out?

I haven't YET claimed to do any of those things because I said we need ground rules for discussion first. If you can't take the concept of flicking a child's hand to train them without pain, you clearly can't keep calm and cool talking about anything else... your choice.

By the way, parents should be dominant in some, not all aspects, in their homes. Which is why we need to consider whether it needs to be via words, time out, depriving privileges, spanking, etc. How did you establish in your home that your kids have to do what you say while you pay rent and they do not?
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