To train up a child
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21-11-2013, 01:55 PM
RE: To train up a child
(21-11-2013 01:42 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  It's not a torture manual, it's a guidebook for training children using all-but-forgotten-in-the-modern-era biblical principles.
That says it all... Dodgy

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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21-11-2013, 02:01 PM
RE: To train up a child
(21-11-2013 01:41 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Objection, your honor. I'm on point. My worldview touches my endorsement and your worldview, your disavowal.

I have no idea what the hell this means. It's not even grammatical.

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21-11-2013, 02:04 PM
RE: To train up a child
(21-11-2013 01:42 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Isn't that a loaded question? It's a moot question. It's not a torture manual, it's a guidebook for training children using all-but-forgotten-in-the-modern-era biblical principles. Why do you still recommend Dawkins when you know he's full of hot air? Why were you a mod here when you know deep down there's a god?

See what I mean by loaded questions?


Well which is it? First you say you endorse most everything in the book and even handed it out to friends. Then you say you don't. Now when pressed directly, you say you do endorse it. So which is it, PJ? Why can't you straight up answer his question?

PS: Answering a question with a question isn't an answer.

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21-11-2013, 02:05 PM
RE: To train up a child
(21-11-2013 01:39 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(21-11-2013 11:08 AM)Lightvader Wrote:  Why the hell did you give a book that you don't support to others??
I'm not going to criticize your pparrenting method,becouse i do not have no children.

And you seriously need to work on yer communication skills. Because first,you said you suppport the book and used the methods. Then,you say the pearls take it too far.

They do the right things but most Christians I know wouldn't do it to the degree that they trained...

Then why in God's name would you recommend or give this torture manual to anyone?

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21-11-2013, 02:26 PM
RE: To train up a child
(21-11-2013 01:47 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(21-11-2013 12:39 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(21-11-2013 08:27 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Spanking is for toddlers who can talk and willfully tell a parent "No!"
You physically torture kids because you don't want them to have any power?
...
No is a very important word and needs to be part of everyone's vocabulary.
What kind of parent would make their child scared to say "No"?
We never bring shame on a child who is exploring their body or masturbating. That is not punishable by spanking in my home. That is a discussion only or verbal no, don't do that for younger ones. Period.
No-one was talking about masturbation here. The topic is a child having the power to say "No!" to other people.
(21-11-2013 01:47 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  My children weren't scared to say no. They were instructed/trained not to shout it at us like we're they're employees at the water cooler.
It seems to me that you have low confidence, low self-esteem, such that you feel the need to use violence or threat of violence against people whom challenge your authority.
If these children were adults, would you respect their wishes when they say "No!"? Why do you disrespect them merely because they are children?

If an adult says "No!" to you how do you deal with that?
Do you spank them?
I expect no, because 1. They might spank you back, 2. You will be done for assault

So it seems you feel you can get away with spanking children because they can't spank you back (you are much bigger after all) and it is easy to get away without legal consequences.

But let's say, just with adults, that spanking isn't an option. What would you do?
Would you try and convince or influence the person's decision?
Maybe reason with them, maybe negotiate with them etc.
It you reason with someone, then you are "teaching" them to think in a different way. Teaching them to think about the situation and about the future. For children you are also teaching them the important life skill of negotiation, compromise and how to influence, thus you are teaching them social and leadership skills.

When you spank them, you are teaching them that they have no personal power, that the bigger person can use violence to force the smaller people to do what they want.
Problem with this skill is that the kids quickly learn that it is ineffective in the real world because their victims can also use violence back on them and the law can lock them up.
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21-11-2013, 03:03 PM
RE: To train up a child
(21-11-2013 02:26 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(21-11-2013 01:47 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  We never bring shame on a child who is exploring their body or masturbating. That is not punishable by spanking in my home. That is a discussion only or verbal no, don't do that for younger ones. Period.
No-one was talking about masturbation here. The topic is a child having the power to say "No!" to other people.
(21-11-2013 01:47 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  My children weren't scared to say no. They were instructed/trained not to shout it at us like we're they're employees at the water cooler.
It seems to me that you have low confidence, low self-esteem, such that you feel the need to use violence or threat of violence against people whom challenge your authority.
If these children were adults, would you respect their wishes when they say "No!"? Why do you disrespect them merely because they are children?

If an adult says "No!" to you how do you deal with that?
Do you spank them?
I expect no, because 1. They might spank you back, 2. You will be done for assault

So it seems you feel you can get away with spanking children because they can't spank you back (you are much bigger after all) and it is easy to get away without legal consequences.

But let's say, just with adults, that spanking isn't an option. What would you do?
Would you try and convince or influence the person's decision?
Maybe reason with them, maybe negotiate with them etc.
It you reason with someone, then you are "teaching" them to think in a different way. Teaching them to think about the situation and about the future. For children you are also teaching them the important life skill of negotiation, compromise and how to influence, thus you are teaching them social and leadership skills.

When you spank them, you are teaching them that they have no personal power, that the bigger person can use violence to force the smaller people to do what they want.
Problem with this skill is that the kids quickly learn that it is ineffective in the real world because their victims can also use violence back on them and the law can lock them up.

What do you expect from your children:

No.

NO!

No, thank you.

No, may I tell you why I say no, dad?

No, you overgrown piece of crap.

Nononononononono!

--Training. There's a way to say no that's proper and respectful and controlled and gentle. I've spanked children for saying Yeeeeessss sarcastically and angrily.

What kind of behavior do you expect, and when you do not receive what is deserved/expected, do you yell? curse? spank in anger? spank without anger? send to time out?
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21-11-2013, 03:05 PM
RE: To train up a child
(21-11-2013 02:05 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(21-11-2013 01:39 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  They do the right things but most Christians I know wouldn't do it to the degree that they trained...

Then why in God's name would you recommend or give this torture manual to anyone?

Have you never given a book with a disclaimer? Do you only give books to others or recommend books you believe are 100%, not 99%, spot on?

The book usually comes with an invitation to group parenting classes.
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21-11-2013, 03:06 PM
RE: To train up a child
(21-11-2013 02:01 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(21-11-2013 01:41 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Objection, your honor. I'm on point. My worldview touches my endorsement and your worldview, your disavowal.

I have no idea what the hell this means. It's not even grammatical.

I'm on point. Our personal views on child rearing affect our endorsement or disavowal of the Pearls' book.
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21-11-2013, 03:07 PM
RE: To train up a child
(21-11-2013 02:04 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(21-11-2013 01:42 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Isn't that a loaded question? It's a moot question. It's not a torture manual, it's a guidebook for training children using all-but-forgotten-in-the-modern-era biblical principles. Why do you still recommend Dawkins when you know he's full of hot air? Why were you a mod here when you know deep down there's a god?

See what I mean by loaded questions?


Well which is it? First you say you endorse most everything in the book and even handed it out to friends. Then you say you don't. Now when pressed directly, you say you do endorse it. So which is it, PJ? Why can't you straight up answer his question?

PS: Answering a question with a question isn't an answer.

It's neither or but rather, both and. Yes, I endorse most everything in the book. Yes, it goes to friends and sometimes, acquaintances. Yes, it also comes with--there's a lot in here you may find shocking, but let's chat about it.
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21-11-2013, 03:13 PM
RE: To train up a child
(21-11-2013 03:03 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  What kind of behavior do you expect, and when you do not receive what is deserved/expected, do you yell? curse? spank in anger? spank without anger? send to time out?
I attempt to treat my children with respect as if they are real people.
My goal as a parent is to teach them life skills.

Children often mimic the behaviour of their parents (and friends).
If my kids shout, it's because I shout, if they hit, it's because I hit.

However, if they negotiate, it's because I negotiate, if they reason, it's because I reason, if they are respectful, it's because I am respectful.

PJ, there is more than one way to skin a cat, you don't have to use violence in order to influence your children's behaviour. Just remember, you are older, wiser and smarter than your kids, the challenge is to lead and influence them in the direction you desire (surely you can find a way that doesn't involve violence or threats)
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