To train up a child
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22-11-2013, 09:40 AM
RE: To train up a child
(21-11-2013 07:46 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(21-11-2013 03:05 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Have you never given a book with a disclaimer? Do you only give books to others or recommend books you believe are 100%, not 99%, spot on?

The book usually comes with an invitation to group parenting classes.

I don't give out abuse manuals, you fucking moron.

The Pearls' book is not an abuse manual, and again, millions of born again parents use similar methods with their families.
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22-11-2013, 09:43 AM
RE: To train up a child
(21-11-2013 08:39 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(21-11-2013 03:07 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:   Yes, I endorse most everything in the book.

Which means you endorse the following:

Some of the discipline techniques the Pearls teach include:

Using plastic tubing to beat children, since it is "too light to cause damage to the muscle or the bone”
Wearing the plastic tubing around the parent's neck as a constant reminder to obey
"Swatting" babies as young as six months old with instruments such as "a 12-inch willowy branch," thinner plastic tubing or a wooden spoon
"Blanket training" babies by hitting them with an instrument if they try to crawl off a blanket on the floor
Beating older children with rulers, paddles, belts and larger tree branches
"Training" children with pain before they even disobey, in order to teach total obedience
Giving cold water baths, putting children outside in cold weather and withholding meals as discipline
Hosing off children who have potty training accidents
Inflicting punishment until a child is "without breath to complain"

Taq:

Yes. I endorse most everything in the book. Why not merely ask me what I don't endorse and then you'll have a fuller picture. Also, you haven't given any context of a general sense of the book--only pull quotes from other sources--you haven't read the book.

Let's employ some logic here:

If is says to beat older children with a paddle, then why are younger children not beat with a paddle? Why would the item used to spank (I don't believe the book ever uses the word BEAT) be discarded for the older child?
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22-11-2013, 09:47 AM
RE: To train up a child
(21-11-2013 09:13 PM)sporehux Wrote:  OK I'll bite: If this is not just some elaborate extended troll Please Jesus. can you explain why your powers of logic choose a minority point of view over a mountain of expert studies into child psychology:

Will you admit that you have invested so much into justifying this behavior that your unwilling now to factor in the pros and cons of such parenting.

All the pros you have so far mentioned leave so much grey area for harmful abuse that only a tiny percentage of families will come out with a normal child.

Do you consider yourself to be a better child psychology expert than people who study that field ? if not why do you ignore/exclude their results.

What evidence would it take to change your mind about the necessity/un of corporal punishment.?

In addition to my local church, we share a home school cooperative and have seen other kids in high school, at soccer, in their homes for gatherings, etc. I've met/known/interacted with hundreds of children who were not spanked in anger by abusive parents with belts but in love by gentle, self-disciplined parents.

I've been to numerous home school grad ceremonies after knowing these kids from toddlers or kindergarten age where they are lauded for their many acheivements, accepted into top colleges, perfoming music recitals, etc. -- excelling children and young teens. Some of them are now parents themselves.

I don't think there should be corporal punishment in secular schools. I think this is a choice that believing parents need to decide.

They come with MANY of the objections that you make and others on this forum and then the read and listen--and they know our kids, too.
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22-11-2013, 09:48 AM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 09:39 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  A child may be spanked and feel hurt--but this hurt does not lead to longterm trauma... it actually leads to trust in the parents and a longterm pattern of improved behavior. The Bible indicates that not dealing with the child's rebellious nature has implications for them as a child... and as an adult.


Au contraire. Studies have shown the negative effects of spanking. Read this article over a multi-year study on spanking children. The children grew up to display much more aggressive tendencies.

http://content.time.com/time/magazine/ar...95,00.html
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22-11-2013, 09:50 AM
RE: To train up a child
(21-11-2013 09:22 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  How many deaths before you change your mind about this being a good book? I mean answer honestly if I said 10 children were "accidentally" beaten to death by parents using thing book as a guide would you stop recommending it? What about 15? 20? Is there a point where you would decide that maybe the book is too dangerous to recommend?

Children are not to be beaten, they are to be spanked. God made the gluteus maximus region in part to be a soft cushion for a few spanks that make a child cry. Blood is not to be drawn--do you have any concept of how hard you have to hit a child with a 1/4 inch thick section of PVC plastic on their bottom to KILL them?

I will continue to recommend the Pearls' book and the Bible, and Tolkien, and some Stephen King, and Hitchens, to some non-psychotic persons. Is that okay?
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22-11-2013, 09:52 AM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 01:51 AM)sporehux Wrote:  A challenge for you PJ (and any other CP lurkers out there)

As Much as my Kids hate me for it, They have 15 minutes to decide their own punishment and explain why its appropriate for the crime they committed.
If I believe they understand the crime and are close to a reasonable punishment for it (spanking is not an option), then the problem is over (i just need to apply the punishment).
If not they get a long explanation of what they did and why it deserves a certain punishment level (more severe than what they choose).
I've found this encourages them to unintentionally think through the consequences of what they did and why it was wrong, least they have me lecture it to them.

Most times they come up with things I had not considered and not just what I have mentioned previously.

To summarize the actual punishment can be quite pathetic, grounded for an afternoon,house cleaning, car washing, no internet for x hours, most severe is EMP (no electronics) I will be arrested for child abuse one day for this. Its getting them to understand what they did was wrong so they can build a moral compass on not repeating it.


JUST TRY IT FOR A MONTH, let your kids rationalize to you why what they did was deserving of punishment, it helps them understand and have empathy for your situation (the parents).
do you really want your kids subconscious to despise you ?



.

Good post spore.

"Corporal punishment instills fear rather than understanding. Even if children stop tantrums when spanked, that doesn't mean they get why they shouldn't have been acting up in the first place."

Read more: The Long-Term Effects of Spanking - TIME http://content.time.com/time/magazine/ar...z2lOFEtUXU
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22-11-2013, 09:53 AM
RE: To train up a child
(21-11-2013 10:36 PM)sporehux Wrote:  
(21-11-2013 10:15 PM)C²L Wrote:  Corporeal Punishment is for fetishists and pedophiles.

What do you mean, This is totally not sexual

[Image: spanking-phantom.jpg]

But on serious note, is there a case for Corporal punishment being related to sexual gratification, that would be all kinds of wrong, pedophilia and incest, two things that are less important in the bible than Honoring thy father and mother.


"Does corporal punishment predispose children to be victims of sexual abuse?

"Spanked children don't regard their bodies as being their own personal property. Spanking trains them to accept the idea that adults have absolute authority over their bodies, including the right to inflict pain. And being hit on the buttocks teaches them that even their sexual areas are subject to the will of adults. The child who submits to a spanking on Monday is not likely to say 'No' to a molester on Tuesday. People who sexually molest or exploit children know this. They stalk potential victims among children who have been taught to 'obey or else' because such children are the easiest targets."

Older children are to be spanked with their clothes on--they are not to feel any body shame. Spanking is never, ever for masturbation or "playing doctor". Christians teach their children how to say no to strangers and they need not hug even grandma if they don't feel up to it.

Respect for the body and healthy taboos, with a total lack of unhealthy taboos and superstitions is the hallmark of our parenting.
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22-11-2013, 09:54 AM
RE: To train up a child
(Why did I click this thread? I saw PJ was the last post, why can't I just leave it alone?!)
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22-11-2013, 09:54 AM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 09:50 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Children are not to be beaten, they are to be spanked. God made the gluteus maximus region in part to be a soft cushion for a few spanks that make a child cry. Blood is not to be drawn--do you have any concept of how hard you have to hit a child with a 1/4 inch thick section of PVC plastic on their bottom to KILL them?

The gluteus maximus is used for hip mobility and stability, and for walking, running, and lifting.

Gawd made the ass muscle so you could hit it? What the fuck man.
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22-11-2013, 09:58 AM
RE: To train up a child
(21-11-2013 11:21 PM)sporehux Wrote:  This is from the Current Pearl Fundie website:

Contrary to the perception produced by the media, you do have a right to spank your children in all 50 states. In Tennessee, Child Protection Services says it is not abuse unless marks remain on the child 24 hours after the fact. You can read the laws for your state online.
http://nogreaterjoy.org/articles/spank-a...e-a-child/

I wonder why they have removed all the other great advice:

"The Pearls' advice from their previous Web site: A swift whack with the plastic tubing would sting but not bruise. Give 10 licks at a time, more if the child resists. Be careful about using it in front of others -- even at church; nosy neighbors might call social workers. Save hands for nurturing, not disciplining. Heed the warning, taken from Proverbs in the Old Testament, that sparing the rod will spoil the child.

The word of the day is "Deception"
So Kids, what does corporal punishment and theism have in common: "Deception" ,
Bonus point for Prefixing, "Self-deception" those who condone corporal punishment.

Wiki link was for PJ, Its evident he has no concept of the word.

If mandatory abortion was legal as it was in China, Christians would be "okay" to disobey that law. I'm not upset by a Christian who discreetly trains children in abeyance of a state statute.

Further, all Christians in every state should be discreet. 1) Why embarrass the child in public? 2) People who were spanked in anger or otherwise abused will call Child Protection Services at a slight provocation.
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