To train up a child
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22-11-2013, 10:44 AM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 10:28 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(22-11-2013 12:54 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  PleaseJesus. Did you watch the video? Do you see the arrogance and excitement for abuse? The light in his eyes in describing the beatings?

I am not going to ridicule you. I have "faith" that you are not the monster in that video. I was spanked as a child and suffer no lasting effects (that I can tell), however I did have gracious, thinking, loving parents, in spite of their hard, old school religious upbringing.

I would implore you to stop giving out this book. I would beg you to write your own damn book on parenting before endorsing this shit. Children have died because of it. Because people are not self aware enough to think for themselves when it comes to life, and the life that is entrusted to them. A lot of people are sheep. They will follow an authoritative voice to destruction if they are promised heaven.

This shit needs to stop, you need to stop endorsing it, in any measure. Now.

Please, for the sake of the next innocent child who would die because of the ignorance printed in the pages of this book, stop.

Your defense of this book reminds me of a conversation at work with a customer a while ago. I''m going to paraphrase but the gist is accurate. The conversation was on homosexuality. He said, "I have my own ideas on whether or not it's wrong, but if I'm going to be a man of god, and believe that what the bible says is true, than I have to support the bigotry of the bible."

Paraphrased, but that's what he said. Cognitive dissonance defined in a real world example of the fear of people to stand up for what they know to be true.

You are exemplifying this in every post you make. Please think about this.

How could you see the "light in his eyes"? The video was edited so fast with snippets. I mean, not even half-sentences...

The only thing that shocked me about the video was that the kids apparently got 5 spanks for an infraction and 5 more for lying. We would do 15 and 15, 20 and 20 when they were much older. I hope that doesn't sound inflammatory....
i call troll. If he is not trolling,he is f*cked up,really

I don't really like going outside.
It's too damn "peopley" out there....
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22-11-2013, 10:46 AM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 10:29 AM)guitar_nut Wrote:  
(22-11-2013 09:43 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Why not merely ask me what I don't endorse and then you'll have a fuller picture.

Is something keeping you from simply telling everyone? Is it because:

1. You need to be asked (again)?
2. You enjoy keeping this discussion heated?
3. You're trying to antagonize the more angry posters?
4. You like being called names and accused of child abuse, so you can be the victim?
5. Uber-troll?

Sheesh.

I have been answering, and going past and faster than the limits I've set and spoken of already. But I will not cowtow to saying "here are the things I think they're wrong on" when 1) they're about 99% right and the other 1% is pretty gray area 2) the people here haven't read the book and keep misquoting it to me from other sources so saying exactly what's wrong with it leaves me very vulnerable to misquoted lies.

If someone could direct me to where the text appears online, I can cull some quotes. I don't even have a copy anymore at home--all given away--my kids are 16 years old and up...
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22-11-2013, 10:49 AM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 10:28 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  How could you see the "light in his eyes"? The video was edited so fast with snippets. I mean, not even half-sentences...

The only thing that shocked me about the video was that the kids apparently got 5 spanks for an infraction and 5 more for lying. We would do 15 and 15, 20 and 20 when they were much older. I hope that doesn't sound inflammatory...

You hit your kid 40 goddamn times? If you don't feel that is excessive, you are delusional. One spank. ONE - if you choose to do this - is enough to get the message across.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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22-11-2013, 10:50 AM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 10:41 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(22-11-2013 09:40 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  The Pearls' book is not an abuse manual, and again, millions of born again parents use similar methods with their families.

It describes and advocates acts that are abusive to children, it is an abuse manual.

You do not understand the difference, either practical or ethical, between training and teaching.

To be more correct, it describes and advocates acts that you say are abusive to children. It also details praying for patience and using prayer first, verbal discussion second, discipline third--I do understand the differences between training and teaching--and you are putting me in remembrance of the lies we've told ourselves for 50 years and more in the U.S. that the answer to all the problems is more education and more money spent on education.

Education is vital--my spouse home schooled for many years so we're personally invested--my kids further did talented/gifted programs outside home school and in their high school work--but we may train ourselves as adults and our children--and good training begins early.
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22-11-2013, 10:50 AM
RE: To train up a child
i call troll. If he is not trolling,he is f*cked up,really
[/quote]

Yep the recent comments nailed it, was a useful public service troll though
I'm sure there are some abusers that may stumble here, hope they see some non PJ advice to help them.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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22-11-2013, 10:54 AM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 10:46 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(22-11-2013 10:29 AM)guitar_nut Wrote:  Is something keeping you from simply telling everyone? Is it because:

1. You need to be asked (again)?
2. You enjoy keeping this discussion heated?
3. You're trying to antagonize the more angry posters?
4. You like being called names and accused of child abuse, so you can be the victim?
5. Uber-troll?

Sheesh.

I have been answering, and going past and faster than the limits I've set and spoken of already. But I will not cowtow to saying "here are the things I think they're wrong on" when 1) they're about 99% right and the other 1% is pretty gray area 2) the people here haven't read the book and keep misquoting it to me from other sources so saying exactly what's wrong with it leaves me very vulnerable to misquoted lies.

If someone could direct me to where the text appears online, I can cull some quotes. I don't even have a copy anymore at home--all given away--my kids are 16 years old and up...


And I will love him and pet him, and squeeze him and I Shall call him Squishy.......and he shall be mine forever and ever.

And I shall stalk you now- My new pet troll. Give me a reason to exist here to give you nothing but shit day in and day out. I will track you and post where you post and make your existence miserable for thou doth spew such crap you are worthy of torment. Welcome to hell.......yanno............the one you believe in.Laughat

(rubs hands together in maniacal fashion) Buwwaaaahaaaa (prepares cauldron with boiling oil)Tongue






naaaa

just kidding..........
Drinking Beverage

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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22-11-2013, 10:55 AM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 10:49 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(22-11-2013 10:28 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  How could you see the "light in his eyes"? The video was edited so fast with snippets. I mean, not even half-sentences...

The only thing that shocked me about the video was that the kids apparently got 5 spanks for an infraction and 5 more for lying. We would do 15 and 15, 20 and 20 when they were much older. I hope that doesn't sound inflammatory...

You hit your kid 40 goddamn times? If you don't feel that is excessive, you are delusional. One spank. ONE - if you choose to do this - is enough to get the message across.

One spank? Do you run across the room and hit your kid with a brick?

When you spank a child lightly on their bottom, it's often that they don't cry or make a sound at all--it's like nothing to them--but again, most every post here is someone saying they were abused as children and so fear spanking or people just taking potshots at me. Hopefully I can find a demonstration video online to post here.

PLEASE understand I'm not just proselytizing on this thread--I'm trying to assist real parents here with child raising issues.
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22-11-2013, 10:58 AM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 10:55 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(22-11-2013 10:49 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  You hit your kid 40 goddamn times? If you don't feel that is excessive, you are delusional. One spank. ONE - if you choose to do this - is enough to get the message across.

One spank? Do you run across the room and hit your kid with a brick?

When you spank a child lightly on their bottom, it's often that they don't cry or make a sound at all--it's like nothing to them--but again, most every post here is someone saying they were abused as children and so fear spanking or people just taking potshots at me. Hopefully I can find a demonstration video online to post here.

PLEASE understand I'm not just proselytizing on this thread--I'm trying to assist real parents here with child raising issues.


I raised three into absolutely utter amazing adults. Ask me anything about child rearing. I'll help you out.
Your viewpoint being a bit skewed and all Might want to ask some of us who've raised humans into way-cool adults (even success with grandbabies)

anywho
the offer stands..................

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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22-11-2013, 11:01 AM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 10:55 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  PLEASE understand I'm not just proselytizing on this thread--I'm trying to assist real parents here with child raising issues.

Be an extreme example on immoral parenting: Check
Show why the bible should not be a guide for parenting: Check

Thank you for watching the PleaseJesus PSA Channel.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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22-11-2013, 11:04 AM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 10:31 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Gosh, you don't get it. The butt is soft with lots of fat. You don't spank a child on their arm, their leg, their face, etc. If your parent hit you elsewhere they may have been abusive and violent.

My quotes from the book are correct. I read the whole thing before making a single comment. Link here:
To Train Up a Child

And here's a nice section about hitting a child 'elsewhere':

Well, on this occasion it would turn out differently. As the talk continued, little Johnny got tired of assaulting his mother and turned on my wife. After the first blow, almost without diverting her eyes from the mother, and with no change of expression, she picked up a matching plastic toy. This was not to fight back, but to train. The mother is the one who would most benefit from what was about to occur. As little Johnny drove home the next blow, swiftly and with more than matching force, my wife struck. Such surprise! What is this little Johnny feels coming from his arm? Pain! And somehow it is associated with the striking of this toy. Again, Johnny strikes. Again, swift, retribution (training really). Johnny is very tough; so, though he didn't cry, he pulled back his pained arm and examined it carefully. You could see the little mental computer working. As if to test his new theory, again, but with less force, he struck. The immediately returned blow was not diminished in strength. This time, I thought he would cry. No, after looking at his mother, as if to say, "What is this new thing?" he again, and with even less force, struck my wife on the arm. I was thinking, "She will lighten up this time and match his diminished intensity." Again, my wife struck, seemingly, with all the force she could possibly muster without standing for a wind-up.

Not the kind of advice I'd give to a parent. You can reduce yourself to the child's world and hit back, or you can be the adult. Don't want to be the adult? Don't make babies.

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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