To train up a child
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22-11-2013, 11:07 AM
RE: To train up a child
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22-11-2013, 11:12 AM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 09:37 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  What do you mean by "wait it out"? If you're attending a wedding and the child is screaming and throwing a fit, do you go outside with the child to wait it out for 20 minutes and miss the ceremony?
Yes, I've done that before.

I'd far rather miss a ceremony than violently beat my own child.
But that's just me, I understand that you are very different from me.

My child was 4 weeks old at the time. What would have you done? Used a gag, a plastic pipe, a thin switch branch?
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22-11-2013, 11:17 AM
RE: To train up a child
Book of Pearlism: 13:7

When you demand that your child be treated fairly, you are protecting him from reality. The younger they are, the better to learn that they deserve no equality. Your reactions are not going to make life any less unfair for your child; but you can mold a feel-sorry-for-myself attitude. If you are tough they will be tough

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
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22-11-2013, 11:19 AM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 10:41 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  If you hit anyone including a child, you've lost the argument. You do not need to argue with your child. You should NEVER, EVER hit them. You may however, spank them.

So you think there is a difference between hitting and spanking?

Lets look at the definition, shall we?

Hit (verb)

bring one's hand or a tool or weapon into contact with (someone or something) quickly and forcefully.
"the woman hit the mugger with her umbrella"
synonyms: strike, slap, smack, spank, cuff, punch, thump, swat; More
accidentally strike (part of one's body) against something, often causing injury.
"she fainted and hit her head on the metal bedstead"
(of a moving object or body) come into contact with (someone or something stationary) quickly and forcefully.
"a car hit the barrier"
synonyms: crash into, run into, smash into, smack into, knock into, bump into, plow into, collide with, meet head-on, impact More
informal
touch or press (part of a machine or other device) in order to work it.
"he picked up the phone and hit several buttons"
2.
cause harm or distress to.
"the area has been badly hit by business closures"
make a strongly worded criticism or attack.
"he hit out at suppliers for hyping their products"
synonyms: retaliate, respond, reply, react, counter, defend oneself More
(of a disaster) occur in and cause damage to (an area) suddenly.
"the country was hit by a major earthquake"
informal
attack and rob or kill.
"if they're cops, maybe it's not a good idea to have them hit"
informal
be affected by (an unfortunate and unexpected circumstance or event).
"the opening of the town center hit a snag"
3.
(of a missile or a person aiming one) strike (a target).
"the sniper fired and hit a third man"
informal
reach (a particular level, point, or figure).
"his career hit rock bottom"
synonyms: reach, touch, arrive at, rise to, climb to More
informal
arrive at or go to (a place).
"we hit a diner for coffee and doughnuts"
be suddenly and vividly realized by.
"it hit her that I wanted to settle down here"
synonyms: occur to, strike, dawn on, come to; More
informal
(of a piece of music, film, or play) be successful.
"actors are promised a pay increase if a show hits"
take effect.
"we sat waiting for the caffeine to hit"
informal
give (someone) a dose of a drug or an alcoholic drink.
informal
(of a product) become available and make an impact on.
"the latest board game to hit the market"
informal
used to express the idea that someone is taking up a pursuit or taking it seriously.
"more and more teenagers are hitting the books"
informal
ask someone for.
"she was waiting for the right moment to hit her mother for some cash"
4.
propel (a ball) with a bat, racket, stick, etc., to score or attempt to score runs or points in a game.
score (runs or points) by hitting a ball with a bat, racket, or stick.
"he had hit 25 home runs"
BASEBALL
(of a batter) make a base hit.
noun
noun: hit; plural noun: hits
1.
an instance of striking or being struck.
"few structures can withstand a hit from a speeding car"
synonyms: blow, thump, punch, knock, bang, cuff, slap, smack, spank, tap, crack, stroke, welt, karate chop; More
a verbal attack.
"he could not resist a hit at his friend's religiosity"
informal
a murder, typically one planned and carried out by a criminal organization.
BASEBALL
short for base hit.
2.
an instance of striking the target aimed at.
"one of the bombers had scored a direct hit"


Spank (verb)

.
slap with one's open hand or a flat object, esp. on the buttocks as a punishment.
"she was spanked for spilling ink on the carpet"
synonyms: smack, slap, hit, cuff; More
noun
noun: spank; plural noun: spanks
1.
a slap with one's open hand, esp. on the buttocks.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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22-11-2013, 11:24 AM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 10:58 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  
(22-11-2013 10:55 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  One spank? Do you run across the room and hit your kid with a brick?

When you spank a child lightly on their bottom, it's often that they don't cry or make a sound at all--it's like nothing to them--but again, most every post here is someone saying they were abused as children and so fear spanking or people just taking potshots at me. Hopefully I can find a demonstration video online to post here.

PLEASE understand I'm not just proselytizing on this thread--I'm trying to assist real parents here with child raising issues.


I raised three into absolutely utter amazing adults. Ask me anything about child rearing. I'll help you out.
Your viewpoint being a bit skewed and all Might want to ask some of us who've raised humans into way-cool adults (even success with grandbabies)

anywho
the offer stands..................

Thanks for the offer of help.

I'm sure they are amazing adults. I'm sure--and this is not reneging on my past sentence--they're also not born again.

Train a child in the way they should go--they'll have it when they're older.

My children could say at a young age, "Jesus took the spanking that we all deserve. He took our punishment for us."
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22-11-2013, 11:27 AM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 10:39 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(22-11-2013 10:27 AM)Chas Wrote:  Yes, that's exactly what you do.

And if the child is the RING BEARER? Do we all wait and hold the ceremony, the catering at the reception--pay the band and emcee for overtime, and the honeymoon flight they have two tickets for, for 20 or 30 minutes so that the 300 adults participating can wait on the four-year-old throwing the tantrum?

I don't know if I've ever said this you before, Chas, but I'm sorry, you are 100% wrong in this case. I cannot see your point at all.

A ring bearer isn't necessary, you just carry on.

You can't see my point because you are a brainwashed barbarian.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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22-11-2013, 11:28 AM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 10:54 AM)WitchSabrina Wrote:  
(22-11-2013 10:46 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  I have been answering, and going past and faster than the limits I've set and spoken of already. But I will not cowtow to saying "here are the things I think they're wrong on" when 1) they're about 99% right and the other 1% is pretty gray area 2) the people here haven't read the book and keep misquoting it to me from other sources so saying exactly what's wrong with it leaves me very vulnerable to misquoted lies.

If someone could direct me to where the text appears online, I can cull some quotes. I don't even have a copy anymore at home--all given away--my kids are 16 years old and up...


And I will love him and pet him, and squeeze him and I Shall call him Squishy.......and he shall be mine forever and ever.

And I shall stalk you now- My new pet troll. Give me a reason to exist here to give you nothing but shit day in and day out. I will track you and post where you post and make your existence miserable for thou doth spew such crap you are worthy of torment. Welcome to hell.......yanno............the one you believe in.Laughat

(rubs hands together in maniacal fashion) Buwwaaaahaaaa (prepares cauldron with boiling oil)Tongue

hahah. I loved that movie. OW! Bad squishy! Baaadddd Squishy!

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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22-11-2013, 11:29 AM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 11:04 AM)guitar_nut Wrote:  
(22-11-2013 10:31 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Gosh, you don't get it. The butt is soft with lots of fat. You don't spank a child on their arm, their leg, their face, etc. If your parent hit you elsewhere they may have been abusive and violent.

My quotes from the book are correct. I read the whole thing before making a single comment. Link here:
To Train Up a Child

And here's a nice section about hitting a child 'elsewhere':

Well, on this occasion it would turn out differently. As the talk continued, little Johnny got tired of assaulting his mother and turned on my wife. After the first blow, almost without diverting her eyes from the mother, and with no change of expression, she picked up a matching plastic toy. This was not to fight back, but to train. The mother is the one who would most benefit from what was about to occur. As little Johnny drove home the next blow, swiftly and with more than matching force, my wife struck. Such surprise! What is this little Johnny feels coming from his arm? Pain! And somehow it is associated with the striking of this toy. Again, Johnny strikes. Again, swift, retribution (training really). Johnny is very tough; so, though he didn't cry, he pulled back his pained arm and examined it carefully. You could see the little mental computer working. As if to test his new theory, again, but with less force, he struck. The immediately returned blow was not diminished in strength. This time, I thought he would cry. No, after looking at his mother, as if to say, "What is this new thing?" he again, and with even less force, struck my wife on the arm. I was thinking, "She will lighten up this time and match his diminished intensity." Again, my wife struck, seemingly, with all the force she could possibly muster without standing for a wind-up.

Not the kind of advice I'd give to a parent. You can reduce yourself to the child's world and hit back, or you can be the adult. Don't want to be the adult? Don't make babies.

Thanks for the link.

My uncle was a cop and my aunt and uncle weren't born again. My aunt had an unruly child over to visit--she gave him several rounds of fair warning--this kid was a total hellion--and then she handcuffed him to a bed for a while.

Not only did he drop the BS attitude he'd carried to her from how his parents never corrected him--not only did he become a model child in her home on visits--many years going forward and later as an adult he was affectionate with my aunt and hugged her and treated her like a second mom.

Are you certain you read the whole book? You skipped the next few paragraphs which gave a LOT more context. My story about my aunt dovetails with the final paragraph:

"What is hard for some to believe is that the results of that encounter endeared my wife to little Johnny. He seems to love her dearly and demands to be picked up when she is near. Children are comfortable around someone who has control of their own emotions, and with whom they know their limitations. Since this experience and further counseling, the mother and the child are showing great improvement."

In other words, the kid got the attention he was seeking with his bad behavior--and the child changed so much in the Pearls' house, the mom was like--what magic spells are you weaving in his life and then she got on board.
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22-11-2013, 11:31 AM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 11:12 AM)Stevil Wrote:  
(22-11-2013 09:37 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  What do you mean by "wait it out"? If you're attending a wedding and the child is screaming and throwing a fit, do you go outside with the child to wait it out for 20 minutes and miss the ceremony?
Yes, I've done that before.

I'd far rather miss a ceremony than violently beat my own child.
But that's just me, I understand that you are very different from me.

My child was 4 weeks old at the time. What would have you done? Used a gag, a plastic pipe, a thin switch branch?

Stevil:

I know this is a touchy subject. I don't shy away from that--I mean this whole thread.

You take the 4-week-old outside and console it. I know I've said elsewhere we didn't train our kids and that without pain, only stimulus, until around 11 months of age.

Of course, it wasn't the brightest idea to bring a 4-week-old to a wedding, but you probably knew that!

And we NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER (EVER!) "violently beat" our children. We spanked, calmly and with a calm tone of voice and without anger.
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22-11-2013, 11:34 AM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 11:24 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Train a child in the way they should go--they'll have it when they're older.

Translation: Beat, brainwash and break a child's will, and they will go on to repeat the cycle of abuse and undermine the successful evolution of humans into compassionate and tolerant beings.

But now I have come to believe that the whole world is an enigma, a harmless enigma that is made terrible by our own mad attempt to interpret it as though it had an underlying truth.

~ Umberto Eco
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