To train up a child
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 2 Votes - 3 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
22-11-2013, 11:46 AM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 11:42 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Let's think about this like adults. Maybe I should appear via a group Skype or other conference so we can all talk like adults, and so I can show, physically and verbally, exactly how we spank (an action figure, not a live child).
You want to make your own version of the Pearl video?
I don't think his video improved people's perception of him, what do you think?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Stevil's post
22-11-2013, 11:47 AM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 11:42 AM)sporehux Wrote:  
(22-11-2013 11:39 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  atheists don't want consequences meted for sin,

What does that mean ?

I would guess that he means a child's misbehavior is sin.

That would explain his over-the-top reaction - got to beat the sin outta those kids.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Chas's post
22-11-2013, 11:56 AM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 11:29 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Thanks for the link.

You're welcome. It helps to have the source material available when debating.

(22-11-2013 11:29 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  My uncle was a cop and my aunt and uncle weren't born again. My aunt had an unruly child over to visit--she gave him several rounds of fair warning--this kid was a total hellion--and then she handcuffed him to a bed for a while.

Not only did he drop the BS attitude he'd carried to her from how his parents never corrected him--not only did he become a model child in her home on visits--many years going forward and later as an adult he was affectionate with my aunt and hugged her and treated her like a second mom.

So she didn't strike him with as much strength as she could muster without winding up? Good for her. Sounds like a good aunt.

(22-11-2013 11:29 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Are you certain you read the whole book? You skipped the next few paragraphs which gave a LOT more context. My story about my aunt dovetails with the final paragraph:

"What is hard for some to believe is that the results of that encounter endeared my wife to little Johnny. He seems to love her dearly and demands to be picked up when she is near. Children are comfortable around someone who has control of their own emotions, and with whom they know their limitations. Since this experience and further counseling, the mother and the child are showing great improvement."

Ah... the ends justify the means. I'm not surprised based on the dogma you chose to follow. You're aware of the psychological affect that physical abuse can have where the abused become dependent, and even loving towards, the abuser, yes? Speaking of cops, my family is full of them. I can cite domestic abuse cases where the wife is loving, obedient, and fiercely loyal to her abuser. You call that success, too? The outcome is biblical, after all. Obedient, loving, loyal.

Pearl's book is a whole collection of success stories. Unfortunately, not being an expert in child psychology, he's reduced to using what he knows about training mules. My thoughts:

1. Success is meaningless until you compare it to the failures. Let's collect data on struck children and see how many turned out worse (not including the deaths);
2. Obedience is a survival instinct. You can love what you fear;
3. There is empirical evidence that other methods, not requiring physical contact, will rear fantastic kids. This book gives the impression that any method other than pain and submission is failure;

(22-11-2013 11:29 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  In other words, the kid got the attention he was seeking with his bad behavior--and the child changed so much in the Pearls' house, the mom was like--what magic spells are you weaving in his life and then she got on board.

Oh my god, it's so magical. I shot my cat in the ass with a ping pong gun when I was about 3. My parents took the gun away and told me why I shouldn't harm animals. I never got my toy gun back. I still remember the lesson.

They didn't hit me, they didn't shoot me in the ass, and I learned to be compassionate towards animals (no Dahmer jokes, please). Evil_monster

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like guitar_nut's post
22-11-2013, 11:58 AM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 11:42 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(22-11-2013 11:39 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  But the rings are necessary in many cases--but yes, when we're done playing sematic games--let's just say this:

Not only should 300 people not wait for a brat, their two parents or one guardian or whomever should not wait.

They don't pay rent, they don't vote, they don't drink, they don't conscript in the military--and they don't take charge over every aspect of my life and time--and neither should your cat(s).

If I say to you "Grow up, Chas" I'm saying "be an adult" which means "not a child" which means "mature enough not to throw tantrums in public or private without consequences." A fellow threw one at work here this morning and was let go from his employment!

This may not apply to everyone on this forum but I'll share it--what you're calling "abuse" I call "Look, atheists don't want consequences meted for sin, not for themselves, and not for anyone's children."

Grow up, please!

No, you need to grow up. You are the remnant of humanity's moral childhood. Your ideas are bestial and unenlightened.

You don't own your children, you merely have the responsibility to teach them.
You have no right to bend them to your will.

You disgust me.

I have both the onus to teach them and a will:

*My will is that they not curse like sailors
*My will is that they bathe daily or every couple of days if they're too tired to bathe after a late night at play
*My will is that they be prompt to school and considerate of their teachers
*My will is that they approach life with a joyous and open-minded attitude
*My will is that they speak respectfully to adults
*My will is that they show every consideration to their mother who bore them

Anything else "I don't have the right" to do in your opinion? Because I reside in America, not Cuba, Russia or China.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-11-2013, 11:59 AM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 11:44 AM)Stevil Wrote:  
(22-11-2013 11:31 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Of course, it wasn't the brightest idea to bring a 4-week-old to a wedding, but you probably knew that!
It was a friend's wedding, it was important for us to try. We knew the baby might cry and we knew that meant we might miss some stuff.

But that was our expectations going in. We certainly weren't going to punish our baby for the situation that we put her in, we certainly weren't prepared to hit her in the likely event that she cried.

As parents you realise what is normal child behaviour and try and continue with life as "normally" as you can.
But expecting life to be normal and using violence against children for interrupting your life is unwarranted IMO. If you don't want your life to be interrupted by children then don't reproduce.
I'd rather be childless than a child beater.

I'd rather you'd be childless, too, if you don't have the patience to raise kids right. It sounds like you DO have great patience but choose sometimes non-expedient methods.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-11-2013, 12:00 PM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 11:46 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(22-11-2013 10:42 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Not even 1% of the book advocates, represents or is palatable with anything resembling child abuse.
You missed the whole point, didn't you...

Any amount of advocating child abuse renders the entire book horrific, I don't care if it's only 0.0000001%.

Let me help you. 0%, but when I say "go too far" a lot of Christians don't have the guts or the patience to do all they did and do.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-11-2013, 12:01 PM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 11:46 AM)Stevil Wrote:  
(22-11-2013 11:42 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Let's think about this like adults. Maybe I should appear via a group Skype or other conference so we can all talk like adults, and so I can show, physically and verbally, exactly how we spank (an action figure, not a live child).
You want to make your own version of the Pearl video?
I don't think his video improved people's perception of him, what do you think?

I watch the whole video as posted here-it's not what I would call a video but a hatchet job with super fast edits and cuts. Since I use Pearl's methods and have read the book, I can personally see the lack of context, which is why I'm willing to appear--if no one calls CPS on me!
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-11-2013, 12:02 PM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 11:42 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(22-11-2013 11:39 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  But the rings are necessary in many cases--but yes, when we're done playing sematic games--let's just say this:

Not only should 300 people not wait for a brat, their two parents or one guardian or whomever should not wait.

They don't pay rent, they don't vote, they don't drink, they don't conscript in the military--and they don't take charge over every aspect of my life and time--and neither should your cat(s).

If I say to you "Grow up, Chas" I'm saying "be an adult" which means "not a child" which means "mature enough not to throw tantrums in public or private without consequences." A fellow threw one at work here this morning and was let go from his employment!

This may not apply to everyone on this forum but I'll share it--what you're calling "abuse" I call "Look, atheists don't want consequences meted for sin, not for themselves, and not for anyone's children."

Grow up, please!

No, you need to grow up. You are the remnant of humanity's moral childhood. Your ideas are bestial and unenlightened.

You don't own your children, you merely have the responsibility to teach them.
You have no right to bend them to your will.

You disgust me.

Oh, and this is a very telling sentence:
"Not only should 300 people not wait for a brat, their two parents or one guardian or whomever should not wait."

A brat. Your attitude towards children is ignorant and abusive.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Chas's post
22-11-2013, 12:03 PM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 11:47 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(22-11-2013 11:42 AM)sporehux Wrote:  What does that mean ?

I would guess that he means a child's misbehavior is sin.

That would explain his over-the-top reaction - got to beat the sin outta those kids.

When a child tells an adult to shut the hell up or drop dead or etc. you may not call that a sin but I call that a spank-able offense.

It's IMPOSSIBLE to beat sin out of anyone. Paul specifically stated that such treatment seems holy with its mortification of the flesh but is useless to stop anyone from sinning. The flagellants are just another Catholic abuse.

When you spank a child for doing wrong, just like when those who don't spank talk to the child about the wrong, you are showing love and concern for the child.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-11-2013, 12:09 PM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 12:03 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  When you spank a child for doing wrong, just like when those who don't spank talk to the child about the wrong, you are showing love and concern for the child.

No, you're not. You're showing a need for control and an unwillingness to take responsibility for teaching.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Chas's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: