To train up a child
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 2 Votes - 3 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
22-11-2013, 12:10 PM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 11:59 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  ...but choose sometimes non-expedient methods.
a.k.a. choose non-violent methods.

As I have said before.
I teach life skills
Teach them negotiation, compromise, reason.

I think I'm teaching them to be non judgmental, tolerant and respectful of diversity and of other people's choices. That they themselves are important and to be respected.

What is it that you are teaching your kids?
Might makes right?
Control others with use of violence?
Sort out disagreements by violent force?
Don't think, just do as you are told?
Seek permission before doing anything.
That they themselves are worthless.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Stevil's post
22-11-2013, 12:12 PM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 09:39 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(21-11-2013 07:42 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  How can you possibly think it is responsible to give out a book that you know advocates abuse?

I do not not expect absolute obedience from my children, but yes I do expect obedience to some extent. I have taught my children through POSITIVE reinforcement and praising. My children are very well behaved.


Although I have never been in this situation, (the thinking parents use this modern invention that plugs the outlet to keep children safe, the thinking parent only allows tiny children to play in childproof supervised areas) I think I would go for a demand of STOP in a situation like this. I would not follow it up with hurting my child. There is the difference.

A child may be spanked and feel hurt--but this hurt does not lead to longterm trauma... it actually leads to trust in the parents and a longterm pattern of improved behavior. The Bible indicates that not dealing with the child's rebellious nature has implications for them as a child... and as an adult.

NO IT DOES NOT! What the hell is wrong with you? Ask a pediatrician, read the recent studies. Spanking does not teach a kid to trust their parents. The bible indicates that you should sacrifice a bull with a nicely shaped penis and large testicles! The bible indicates that you should stone your children to death for disobedience. The bible is not a credible source. You are an ass. I don't agree with spanking but I don't think people who spank (one swat on the bottom with an open hand) their kids are horrible people. It's lazy and stupid but it isn't evil. What this book advocates is evil and illegal.
My biggest problem with you is that you're a liar. You said you follow almost all of the stuff in the book. From what I've read you do maybe 3 things from the book and not even close to the level the book recommends. You only said it to piss people off. That is so immature.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Losty's post
22-11-2013, 12:17 PM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 11:58 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(22-11-2013 11:42 AM)Chas Wrote:  No, you need to grow up. You are the remnant of humanity's moral childhood. Your ideas are bestial and unenlightened.

You don't own your children, you merely have the responsibility to teach them.
You have no right to bend them to your will.

You disgust me.

I have both the onus to teach them and a will:

*My will is that they not curse like sailors
*My will is that they bathe daily or every couple of days if they're too tired to bathe after a late night at play
*My will is that they be prompt to school and considerate of their teachers
*My will is that they approach life with a joyous and open-minded attitude
*My will is that they speak respectfully to adults
*My will is that they show every consideration to their mother who bore them

Anything else "I don't have the right" to do in your opinion? Because I reside in America, not Cuba, Russia or China.

You have a responsibility to teach them to be decent human beings.
Your will is unimportant; it is subservient to your responsibility.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Chas's post
22-11-2013, 12:20 PM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 12:09 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(22-11-2013 12:03 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  When you spank a child for doing wrong, just like when those who don't spank talk to the child about the wrong, you are showing love and concern for the child.

No, you're not. You're showing a need for control and an unwillingness to take responsibility for teaching.

No. No you're not.

I can assure you of that.

My wife and I are good parents. We have had a willingness to teach... in fact we do teach. We invest a lot of our lives into teaching our kids. We teach them politeness, sharing, self control etc. He also teach them obedience. The way obedience is reinforced and obtained differs with each of our children.

Spanking is a tool that is used... just like time out... taking toys away... and scolding.

It just so happens that spanking is the only effective tool that works with my son. I know this because I've taken the time to understand him and teach him.

You are completely wrong.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes kingschosen's post
22-11-2013, 12:21 PM (This post was last modified: 22-11-2013 12:27 PM by sporehux.)
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 12:03 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(22-11-2013 11:47 AM)Chas Wrote:  I would guess that he means a child's misbehavior is sin.

That would explain his over-the-top reaction - got to beat the sin outta those kids.

When a child tells an adult to shut the hell up or drop dead or etc. you may not call that a sin but I call that a spank-able offense.

It's IMPOSSIBLE to beat sin out of anyone. Paul specifically stated that such treatment seems holy with its mortification of the flesh but is useless to stop anyone from sinning. The flagellants are just another Catholic abuse.

When you spank a child for doing wrong, just like when those who don't spank talk to the child about the wrong, you are showing love and concern for the child.

Well since I don't beat my children I guess they respect me enough that has never happened. Funny how I remember telling my abusive father to go the hell.
Its common human decency to have empathy for others and to be respectfull and polite, if you failed to teach these things at an early age, then you fucked up, sit down and teach some morals not from the BOOK instead, using a failed method. http://healthland.time.com/2012/02/06/wh...esnt-work/

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-11-2013, 12:27 PM (This post was last modified: 22-11-2013 01:40 PM by Dark Light.)
RE: To train up a child
This thread is the reason why there are anti-theists instead of just atheists. This is not a debate on spanking a child. This is an argument of whether child abuse is acceptable or not. On this thread the prevailing Christian opinion on this matter seems to be yes, child abuse is fine, but I don't think and sincerely hope that is not the norm.

Spanking a child is debatable. Personally I am okay with spanking. I am not okay with hitting.

Starving a child, forcing a child to shower outside with a hose, mistreating a baby for using their diaper, freezing your child in the winter....this is not acceptable. If you disagree, and think your god endorses any of the above then then your god is evil and not worthy of worship, and you are a stupid asshole for following, or are evil and deserve the worst punishment mankind can fathom.

Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 7 users Like Dark Light's post
22-11-2013, 12:29 PM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 12:00 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(22-11-2013 11:46 AM)Impulse Wrote:  You missed the whole point, didn't you...

Any amount of advocating child abuse renders the entire book horrific, I don't care if it's only 0.0000001%.

Let me help you. 0%, but when I say "go too far" a lot of Christians don't have the guts or the patience to do all they did and do.
0% is not an amount, but merely a representation of no amount. But, if you want to argue that it somehow technically is an amount, it doesn't matter, your point is worth 0% anyway.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-11-2013, 12:29 PM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 12:27 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  This thread is the reason why there are anti-theists instead of just atheists. This is not a debate on spanking a child. This is an argument of whether child abuse is acceptable or not. On this thread the prevailing Christian opinion on this matter seems to yes, child abuse is fine, but I don't think and sincerely hope that is not the norm.

Spanking a child is debatable. Personally I am okay with spanking. I am not okay with hitting.

Starving a child, forcing a child to shower outside with a hose, mistreating a baby for using their diaper, freezing you child in the winter....this is not acceptable. If you disagree, and think your god endorses any of the above then then your god is evil and not worthy of worship, and you are a stupid asshole for following, or are evil and deserve the worst punishment mankind can fathom.

This. You and I think alike.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-11-2013, 12:39 PM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 12:20 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  My wife and I are good parents. We have had a willingness to teach... in fact we do teach. We invest a lot of our lives into teaching our kids. We teach them politeness, sharing, self control etc. He also teach them obedience. The way obedience is reinforced and obtained differs with each of our children.

Not sure what you define as obedience, but it sounds amoral in your sentence.

Theism is to believe what other people claim, Atheism is to ask "why should I".
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-11-2013, 01:04 PM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 10:34 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  The Pearls' methods are rooted in their exegesis and eisegesis of scripture. I'd prefer not to defend the Pearls' book at all if we can have meaningful conversation about the Bible's stance on child rearing.

Since the bible is constantly referenced for guidance in raising children, I would love for PJ to answer a couple of straight forward questions that should be apparent if he knows the book that he references so often.

1.) Please list all of the ways god instructs man to deal with disobedient/disrespectful children?
2.) Why did you choose your specific biblical methods for your children?

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: