To train up a child
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22-11-2013, 02:59 PM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 02:43 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  But the Bible is correct, 100% that any child will become the holy terror without some kind of training. EVERY parent on here who disagrees with spanking trains or educates their child patiently, someway, somehow.

I don't think anyone here is arguing whether or not children should be trained or disciplined, Holy Strawman. It is the methods through which we train them that are being debated.

I'm not interested in comparing horses to children.

Stay. On. Target.

The bible is specific, and so is Pearl, about what the training should be. The bible also has some choice quotes about what should happen to those who disobey, curse, or strike their parents. I find both sources to be unacceptable reference material for raising children. You may be as dishonest as you wish; I know you do not follow the bible's, nor Pearl's, instructions to the letter.

I know great human beings raised without the 'biblical' method, or dominance through pain, which pretty much gives me no reason to continue with this debate.

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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22-11-2013, 03:07 PM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 02:59 PM)guitar_nut Wrote:  
(22-11-2013 02:43 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  But the Bible is correct, 100% that any child will become the holy terror without some kind of training. EVERY parent on here who disagrees with spanking trains or educates their child patiently, someway, somehow.

I don't think anyone here is arguing whether or not children should be trained or disciplined, Holy Strawman. It is the methods through which we train them that are being debated.

I'm not interested in comparing horses to children.

Stay. On. Target.

The bible is specific, and so is Pearl, about what the training should be. The bible also has some choice quotes about what should happen to those who disobey, curse, or strike their parents. I find both sources to be unacceptable reference material for raising children. You may be as dishonest as you wish; I know you do not follow the bible's, nor Pearl's, instructions to the letter.

I know great human beings raised without the 'biblical' method, or dominance through pain, which pretty much gives me no reason to continue with this debate.

The reason you likely will not continue with the debate IMHO is that you prefer general statements to fact and rhetorical accusations to reasoned responses.

Jewish history and tradition alike recall that no child was ever put to death per the Levitical law--although Jewish parents love to tell this law to their kids to see their eyes go wide! Along with the Proverb about the birds of the air plucking out the eyes of the disobedient children, etc.

And the Law was for ADULT children--those who received this law walked with God and saw many miracles in the desert.

Of course, not being Jewish, you likely missed the point--the "parents" of the Israelites was God. It's a lot worse than eyes plucked or death for disobeying Him!

You've also forgotten the 5th commandment of Exodus 20: Honor your parents. This is the first of the commands with an implied reward... that is may go well for you and that you may live a long life in the land the Lord your God is giving you.

I never follow the Bible's instructions to the letter or rarely, since they are to be obeyed in spirit. The letter kills, the spirit gives life. If you're going to tell a born again Christian who is saved by trusting Jesus that they need to obey the Law to the letter you're barking up the wrong tree.

Quit barking and deal with reality. Ask your wonderful friends who were never spanked how much they respect and love their parents. How many of them are atheists with Christian parents!

I'm not saying you're lazy, but posting once or twice and then peace-ing out does not bode well for your own child rearing. Stick around and learn something.

I offered to APPEAR ON CAMERA to teach this stuff. This is your chance to see if I'm a Poe!
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22-11-2013, 03:08 PM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 02:59 PM)guitar_nut Wrote:  
(22-11-2013 02:43 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  But the Bible is correct, 100% that any child will become the holy terror without some kind of training. EVERY parent on here who disagrees with spanking trains or educates their child patiently, someway, somehow.

I don't think anyone here is arguing whether or not children should be trained or disciplined, Holy Strawman. It is the methods through which we train them that are being debated.

I'm not interested in comparing horses to children.

Stay. On. Target.

The bible is specific, and so is Pearl, about what the training should be. The bible also has some choice quotes about what should happen to those who disobey, curse, or strike their parents. I find both sources to be unacceptable reference material for raising children. You may be as dishonest as you wish; I know you do not follow the bible's, nor Pearl's, instructions to the letter.

I know great human beings raised without the 'biblical' method, or dominance through pain, which pretty much gives me no reason to continue with this debate.

And before I forget, I liked your Star Wars reference. Pretty sweet!
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22-11-2013, 03:59 PM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 03:07 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  The reason you likely will not continue with the debate IMHO is that you prefer general statements to fact and rhetorical accusations to reasoned responses.

General statements like 'millions of Christians'? I've given some great reasoned responses. I read the entire Pearl book, and reread critical sections. I did not jump to conclusions about your child raising, but instead asked you to answer the unknowns. Finally, the point of the debate is to test my ideas against yours. I'll never, ever, ever, ever, dent your fundamentalism. That's a pointless task. My arguments are now part of this thread, to be read, critiqued, and judged by everyone, not just you. Why continue? I've covered all my points. That's like trying to reason with a Wookie.

(22-11-2013 03:07 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Jewish history and tradition alike recall that no child was ever put to death per the Levitical law--although Jewish parents love to tell this law to their kids to see their eyes go wide! Along with the Proverb about the birds of the air plucking out the eyes of the disobedient children, etc.

I'm sure a week from now you'll be rejecting historical accounts that disagree with your own beliefs, so I'll just let this comment of yours slide on down the exhaust chute.

(22-11-2013 03:07 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  And the Law was for ADULT children--those who received this law walked with God and saw many miracles in the desert.

Says the bible. Sorry, I don't speak bothan.

(22-11-2013 03:07 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Of course, not being Jewish, you likely missed the point--the "parents" of the Israelites was God. It's a lot worse than eyes plucked or death for disobeying Him!

I know. Confusing. God is a father. Then a mother. Then a judge among gods. Then a son. Then a father with a son. That's not the god I'm looking for.

(22-11-2013 03:07 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  You've also forgotten the 5th commandment of Exodus 20: Honor your parents. This is the first of the commands with an implied reward... that is may go well for you and that you may live a long life in the land the Lord your God is giving you.

I haven't forgotten. A theist told me the old testament was no longer relevant. Another said I'm predestined. Et-chu-ta!

(22-11-2013 03:07 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  I never follow the Bible's instructions to the letter or rarely, since they are to be obeyed in spirit. The letter kills, the spirit gives life. If you're going to tell a born again Christian who is saved by trusting Jesus that they need to obey the Law to the letter you're barking up the wrong tree.

Why bother. Predestined, sucker! Oo-teee-dee!

(22-11-2013 03:07 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Quit barking and deal with reality. Ask your wonderful friends who were never spanked how much they respect and love their parents. How many of them are atheists with Christian parents!

To rephrase, how many of them are now atheists because of their Christian parents? It's as if millions of bibles cried out... and were suddenly silenced.

(22-11-2013 03:07 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  I'm not saying you're lazy, but posting once or twice and then peace-ing out does not bode well for your own child rearing. Stick around and learn something.

Once or twice? Recount! I'm the one who had to get the link from Google because you can't even post your own source material. How rude.

(22-11-2013 03:07 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  I offered to APPEAR ON CAMERA to teach this stuff. This is your chance to see if I'm a Poe!

Well, one thing's for certain... you're no moon.

Thanks, I'll be here all cycle.

If Jesus died for our sins, why is there still sin? If man was created from dust, why is there still dust? If Americans came from Europe, why are there still Europeans?
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22-11-2013, 04:25 PM
RE: To train up a child
Yes, I would call any parent who forces their child to go without food when food is available a terrible excuse for a parent. I don't give a shit if they are Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or whatever else.

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22-11-2013, 06:59 PM (This post was last modified: 22-11-2013 07:08 PM by Cathym112.)
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 10:49 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(22-11-2013 10:28 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  How could you see the "light in his eyes"? The video was edited so fast with snippets. I mean, not even half-sentences...

The only thing that shocked me about the video was that the kids apparently got 5 spanks for an infraction and 5 more for lying. We would do 15 and 15, 20 and 20 when they were much older. I hope that doesn't sound inflammatory...

You hit your kid 40 goddamn times? If you don't feel that is excessive, you are delusional. One spank. ONE - if you choose to do this - is enough to get the message across.

PJ - how can you say that you don't beat your kids, if you spank them 40 times. Clearly it's not the gentle tapping you were referring to.

You are incredibly frustrating to talk to. You backtrack, subvert, and make illogical arguments that don't support your claim. You say one thing, the completely change your story.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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22-11-2013, 07:23 PM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 01:11 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  There's always thinking. Always first is "Look at dad. Hi, son, I need you to please stop doing what you're doing, you're hurting your sister." What you're not hearing is that 95% of the time or more, that's all that's needed. Can most people tell a child, "Look at daddy. Okay, please settle down now and play quietly, dad's on the phone" and then they stop?
Yes, most parents can. My daughter is 11 months old, she understands no touch ,and put it back, let mommy hold it, sit down. I didn't even have to hit her with a switch to teach her that either.
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22-11-2013, 07:44 PM
RE: To train up a child



A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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22-11-2013, 08:47 PM
RE: To train up a child
(21-11-2013 03:55 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  2) You never raise your voice to your kids? You never lose your cool? Spanking can help you from doing either negative behavior...

Fucking idiot. Raising your voice and spanking are BOTH losing your cool.

ESPECIALLY when you do it with a plastic fucking hose to conceal the wounds. If you didn't KNOW it was abuse, you wouldn't feel a need to fucking HIDE it.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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22-11-2013, 08:57 PM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 09:37 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  What do you mean by "wait it out"? If you're attending a wedding and the child is screaming and throwing a fit, do you go outside with the child to wait it out for 20 minutes and miss the ceremony?

FUCK YES, THAT'S WHAT YOU DO.

Unless you are PJ, and you beat them with a hose.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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