To train up a child
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23-11-2013, 09:32 AM
RE: To train up a child
(23-11-2013 08:51 AM)evenheathen Wrote:  
(23-11-2013 06:32 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  Even-

Didn't you see my spanking video? I thought you were gonna be all over that!!

Ah. Sorry. Considering the thread and all I guess I didn't feel it was appropriate. I do have a little tact from time to time.

My apologies, I suppose a spanking is in order? [Image: cheeky-smile-smiley-emoticon.gif]

:-) sometimes even the most serious of conversations need a little humor

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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25-11-2013, 03:04 PM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 04:25 PM)Dark Light Wrote:  Yes, I would call any parent who forces their child to go without food when food is available a terrible excuse for a parent. I don't give a shit if they are Christian, Jewish, Muslim, or whatever else.

Not to play semantics with you but shouldn't some parents help their children with dietary restrictions and diets? Of course they should.

In the same way, a child who refuses to eat a hot dog "cause they don't wanna!" and cries and yells about it should be spanked then returned to the table. VERY rarely, if that wasn't sufficient, they should eat the hot dog if not then--later. There really ARE starving children in this world who'd appreciate that food more than the child.

At a certain age, we got past the "this isn't a restaurant so eat this" to the "you're old enough to cook something from the fridge if you don't want steak tonight" and today our kids are competent cooks. Like we both know, parenting calls for creativity in education and training.
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25-11-2013, 03:07 PM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 06:59 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(22-11-2013 10:49 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  You hit your kid 40 goddamn times? If you don't feel that is excessive, you are delusional. One spank. ONE - if you choose to do this - is enough to get the message across.

PJ - how can you say that you don't beat your kids, if you spank them 40 times. Clearly it's not the gentle tapping you were referring to.

You are incredibly frustrating to talk to. You backtrack, subvert, and make illogical arguments that don't support your claim. You say one thing, the completely change your story.

I'm sorry. I'm not trying to frustrate you with semantics.

Having said that, in my way of thinking drunks beat other drunks in bars and nightclubs. Abusive parents hit their kids with belts and fists.

We spanked our children. The beat and hit words are sometimes used in an inflammatory fashion. There's a difference between corporal punishment or spanking and beating someone with a baseball bat.
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25-11-2013, 03:08 PM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 07:23 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  
(22-11-2013 01:11 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  There's always thinking. Always first is "Look at dad. Hi, son, I need you to please stop doing what you're doing, you're hurting your sister." What you're not hearing is that 95% of the time or more, that's all that's needed. Can most people tell a child, "Look at daddy. Okay, please settle down now and play quietly, dad's on the phone" and then they stop?
Yes, most parents can. My daughter is 11 months old, she understands no touch ,and put it back, let mommy hold it, sit down. I didn't even have to hit her with a switch to teach her that either.

That's good--because we didn't hit our kids either to teach them "no touch". Our children were never terrible twos. Give it some time and see what methods will work best for you, okay?
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25-11-2013, 03:11 PM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 09:17 PM)Lightvader Wrote:  I tries reading the book. I stopped after 5 mins,it hurts me to read it.
I tkink that what the pearls used is a shitty method. Aside from the pain,the abuse and mental problems,this method
1) kills the so wonderfull(and sometimes dangerous) natural curiousity
2) this does not teach them why its wrong,it just creates (touch this object-pain) relation. The child will only not do something out of the fear of parents.
3.this creates blind following of orders instead of actually raising and learning a child to know right from wrong
4.basically,the pearls are saying punish the child for natural urges
5.this removes all the love from the parent-kid relation

If we sum your brief survey of the book, you don't want to restrain your kids's natural urges.

That's super if those urges include creativity, playfulness, optimism, etc.

The Bible says also that "folly is bound in the heart of a child". There is no exception to this universal except for the young Jesus.

There are natural urges you will want to suppress in your child. We must add discipine to education, discernment and etc. Personally, there are many times I did not spank or really do anything--again based on Bible principles...
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25-11-2013, 03:13 PM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 09:22 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(22-11-2013 10:00 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  However, I would NEVER use a pipe on him. We use a plastic spoon.

So you trade one WEAPON for another WEAPON. Yeah, that makes you real different. Rolleyes

If you think a wooden spoon or a small piece of PVC is an effective "weapon" don't ever be a security guard or a cop. Hit yourself on the hand with such--but only bring the end up a few short inches, then come down calmly and with accuracy. It stings--it's not a weapon.
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25-11-2013, 03:15 PM
RE: To train up a child
(22-11-2013 09:58 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(22-11-2013 11:42 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  Let's think about this like adults. Maybe I should appear via a group Skype or other conference so we can all talk like adults, and so I can show, physically and verbally, exactly how we spank (an action figure, not a live child).

I think the vast overreaction here is from people genuinely concerned about the welfare of children--Christian or atheist--and also a few mockers with nothing of importance to say.

You know, asshole, one of my children was grievously abused as an infant by a supposedly trusted adult, and I have NO patience or tolerance AT ALL for your bullshit and your bullshit rationalizations. You have already admitted enough in this forum to get your ass arrested. Don't push your luck.

I see. Just as with every other person who responded on this thread, those who were disciplined by loving theist or atheist parents are hip--and those who have experienced real trauma and abuse are upset, naturally.

Please leave the thread if you feel you will not listen to reason or my arguments. If you want to discuss the issues calmly, it could be helpful for both of us, right?

Also, I admitted to spanking my children, which is not illegal in my state.
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25-11-2013, 03:18 PM
RE: To train up a child
(23-11-2013 06:17 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(22-11-2013 09:24 PM)Lightvader Wrote:  Cathym,how were you raised? What are the thoughts about your upbringing? If you did write it already,i missed it

You didn't miss anything. I never said.

I was raised the youngest of 4. I was an extremely headstrong, and willful child. Still am, but in a much more measured sense.

Parents were catholic. Dad was really devout. My parents believed in spanking, although my mother not so much. My dad was always quick to lose his temper. I can tell you that being spanked beyond a certain age did have an effect on me.

These memories - the ones of me getting spanked - are the ones that stick out in my memory above those happy memories.

Let me say that again for PJ, These memories - the ones of me getting spanked - are the ones that stick out in my memory above those happy memories. He never knew this because I was too afraid to tell him! I suspect PJ's kids are too afraid to tell him, so they tell him what they think he wants to hear. What child says, when asked how they know mom and dad love them, "it's because you disclipline us when we are bad." ** paraphrased from one of PJ's quotes.

Oh sure. We did father daugher things like getting the Christmas tree. Or he would make me silly shaped pancakes. Or we would do "science" experiments because I loved medicine....but these memories are always SECONDARY to those of getting spanked. Like when he spanked me because of what my brother did. (Something got broken and he didn't believe that it wasn't me)

That being said I turned out ok. but growing up I was TERRIFIED of my dad. I remember once when I was around 10. It was during the summer. My dad told me to mow the lawn. We had a very steep hill in our front yard. Long story short, I couldn't push the mower up the hill. The mower was too heavy, and I was too little and afraid it was gonna fall back on me and chop my foot off. I mowed everywhere but the front of the house where the hill was. I ended up living the entire day in terror that I was gonna "get it" when I got home because I didn't do what he told me. How sad that cactus shaped pancakes aren't remembered first.

I had no real relationship with my dad until adulthood where I could recognize that he was an imperfect person and a product of his own abusive childhood.

I remember once, I lied about where I was so I could go to a party. He found out. He whipped me with a belt that night. Didn bruise or leave any marks but my view of him would forever change. It took me a long time to forgive him. Years. And you know what? We spent a weekend together for a cousin's wedding. We went hiking together and it was the first time we connected in more than 5 years. He died the following weekend. Tears sprung to my eyes just to type that. I was 20.

That sad story aside - I am not necessarily against spanking children ages 2-4 with the caveat of never beyond. Is it worth having
THAT be what the child remembers all because of a stupid VCR?

So I think spanking should really be used as a complete last resort. For kings chosen, I'm sure that was his last resort. Everything else was tried and failed. But Pj used it at 11 months. Over a friggin VCR.

I will also note that my very first real boyfriend was emotionally and eventually physically abusive towards me. I could never bring myself to stand up to him because I always felt that I somehow deserved it.

I am sincerely sorry to hear some of what you've shared. I can say honestly I've been there--and I also currently counsel different ones who've been abused.

My wife and I--and I've no doubt KC's family as well--spank not very hard and not with our hands or a belt, and with an extra-calm voice so the child knows dad and mom are self-controlled and not angry, not at all.

As I wrote earlier, you can tell in the children at the mall who is abusing either by anger--or just as bad--by neglect. Our kids would run down the hall laughing--because they always felt loved and never in fear of us--ever.
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25-11-2013, 03:21 PM
RE: To train up a child
(23-11-2013 08:59 AM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(23-11-2013 08:34 AM)sporehux Wrote:  I think its respect: If you completely lose it for your abuser then you don't inherit that behaviour. At least that's what ive noticed first hand.

It could have easily gone the other way for me. I have control of my temper. I exercise a lot. I joined a boxing club in college during the off season from crew.

I was angry when I was a teenager. It took me a long time and a lot of relationships to see what love really was (love is not about knock down drag out fights or hitting). I learned how to talk about difficult issues without getting mad. I learned how to walk away. But it would have been much easier for me if I learned conflict resolution when I was a kid. When you spank, you do rob them of that important skill set.

My grandfather was a belligerent drunk. He beat my grandmother and my dad and his sister.

What PJ doesn't necessarily realize is that children do take to heart "you hit me because you love me and wants what's best for me"

How is this teaching respect? Or love? It's not.

I never spoke disrespectfully to my parents. My mother out of genuine dad out of fear.

We don't say "We hit you because we love you and want what's best for you" per se neither do we spank for doing right things.

It's more like "Do you know why I need to spank you this afternoon?" and they say, "Because I kept punching my sister in the face after you saw me doing it and told me to stop?"

"Yes. Thank you for your honesty. We want you to care for your sister and not hit her in the face ever. Thank you."
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25-11-2013, 03:23 PM
RE: To train up a child
(23-11-2013 09:04 AM)Caveman Wrote:  So what now? Should we start licensing people to become parents like we do before we drive a car or buy a gun?

Oh wait...

Good point. Fornication can make a child, so can a loving marriage. Wine can make merry or be an aid to vehicular manslaughter. A gun can be used to defend a home or murder one's brother or sister.

It is human free will that can make an action sin or righteousness.
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