To train up a child
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25-11-2013, 07:53 PM
RE: To train up a child
PJ - I did not feel like I was abused. What I was trying to tell you is that spanking will be the overriding memory for your kid. If you don't think your kid remembers, in detail, you spanking them 30-40 times, you are fucking crazy.

Let me say that again. Your kids remember being spanked 30-40 times before they remember something nice you've done.

You will have to live with that.

A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction to a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day - Bill Watterson
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26-11-2013, 08:07 AM
RE: To train up a child
(25-11-2013 05:25 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  
(25-11-2013 03:07 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  I'm sorry. I'm not trying to frustrate you with semantics.

Having said that, in my way of thinking drunks beat other drunks in bars and nightclubs. Abusive parents hit their kids with belts and fists.

We spanked our children. The beat and hit words are sometimes used in an inflammatory fashion. There's a difference between corporal punishment or spanking and beating someone with a baseball bat.

You hit (aka spanked) them as much as 40 times in a row? You said 15 and 15 and 20 and 20. It's a yes or no.

No.
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26-11-2013, 08:09 AM
RE: To train up a child
(25-11-2013 05:31 PM)The_Thinking_Theist Wrote:  
(25-11-2013 05:25 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  You hit (aka spanked) them as much as 40 times in a row? You said 15 and 15 and 20 and 20. It's a yes or no.

While a slap on the butt won't hurt anyone, I think that's excessive. To the point of CPS excessive.

I understand your concern. I do not think it's unreasonable. Having "been there" I can tell you that excessive would be a different thing entirely.
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26-11-2013, 08:13 AM
RE: To train up a child
(25-11-2013 06:02 PM)Cathym112 Wrote:  First you say you spanked your kids calmly and without force, then you say you hit them as much as 15 times for the offense and 15 more for lying about it. Or 20 and 20 respectively. Spanking someone 40 times is - one could argue -, using force from the excessive ness. So which is it?

Then you said you didn't use any objects such as belts, then you say you never used your hand, and thus an object. So which is it?

Ps - your kids not going through the terrible twos (I don't believe you but That's besides the point) does not support your position that you are a good parent.

I try to reply to all--I'm sorry if I was unclear. We don't use items that stand for abuse like metal belt buckles and leather belts. We don't use our hands. A small piece of plastic or a wooden spoon is enough.

By the way, on what basis are you doubting my statement that I've known hundreds of Christian parents to not have terrible twos including my own witness to you. My testimony to you is that beautifully behaved children overall is a firm witness of the veracity of the scriptures.

If you say you don't believe me - you are also saying EVERY child MUST be a terrible two--and THIS is the Bible's point. "Folly is in the hearts of [ALL] children."

"He who hates his son does not discipline him."
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26-11-2013, 08:15 AM
RE: To train up a child
(25-11-2013 06:20 PM)LostandInsecure Wrote:  
(25-11-2013 03:15 PM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  I see. Just as with every other person who responded on this thread, those who were disciplined by loving theist or atheist parents are hip--and those who have experienced real trauma and abuse are upset, naturally.

Please leave the thread if you feel you will not listen to reason or my arguments. If you want to discuss the issues calmly, it could be helpful for both of us, right?

Also, I admitted to spanking my children, which is not illegal in my state.

Hitting(spanking) a child with a PVC pipe or a wooden spoon is illegal where I live. There is no reason in your argument, love.

I mentioned the legality because I'm exhausted on this single thread by threats. I've graciously offered to appear on camera to talk about this with TTA members and I get back "I'm reporting you, you !@#$%^&" and etc.

Gay marriage is legal in states, which does not imply it's moral correctness. If spanking is illegal in some states, studies show that many parents do it regardless there. Some do spank or hit in anger. Can this be done without anger? KC said he spanks his son...
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26-11-2013, 08:18 AM
RE: To train up a child
There was a time when spanking your kid was considered normal pretty much. That time.............. has passed.

Raising a strong-willed child (aka the ones who'd even come Close to needing a spanking)
http://www.amazon.com/The-NEW-Strong-Wil...1414313632


In this day & age with the internet at our fingertips and all manner of free counseling available there's NO reason for a parent or guardian, babysitter, etc to raise a hand to a child. If you're around children or anticipate that you might be - you OR the child lack patience or listening skills --- educate yourself on What to Do!!

Seriously - there's NO excuse for not educating yourself to avoid any sort of smacking[1] where a child is concerned.





[1] call it whatever you like........whitewash it as much as you'd like...... a hand raised in anger or frustration OR as response to bad behavior is a hand raised. Period.

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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26-11-2013, 08:21 AM
RE: To train up a child
(25-11-2013 06:24 PM)sporehux Wrote:  (Assuming your argument is valid)

PJ , please explain why you are ignoring all the evidence
That smacking is unnessicary , almost all first world countries have made it illegal Because of the high probability of mental health damage.
And based on many countries having it outlawed for so long, that don't have evil child epidemics, what evidence do you have that all these countries are wrong ?



Study shows even loving parenting that had spanking is harmful.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/201...103621.htm


Http://m.psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-...d-all-kids

Hi,

I looked at both URLs. Neither says anything like staggered sampling or "loving parents". Again, samplings currently include angry and abusive parents. I'm unaware of any statistical sampling data that focused on Bible believing kids or etc.

I must say, though, we have observed that spanked children are more aggressive but in positive modes--competitive, articulate. I watched a soccer game this weekend and it happened that the roster was mostly home schooled spanked kids I know. They played very hard, they communicated "I'm open" or "Go for the goal" kinds of things a lot--but they played very fair.
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26-11-2013, 08:23 AM
RE: To train up a child
(26-11-2013 08:21 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(25-11-2013 06:24 PM)sporehux Wrote:  (Assuming your argument is valid)

PJ , please explain why you are ignoring all the evidence
That smacking is unnessicary , almost all first world countries have made it illegal Because of the high probability of mental health damage.
And based on many countries having it outlawed for so long, that don't have evil child epidemics, what evidence do you have that all these countries are wrong ?



Study shows even loving parenting that had spanking is harmful.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/201...103621.htm


Http://m.psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-...d-all-kids

Hi,

I looked at both URLs. Neither says anything like staggered sampling or "loving parents". Again, samplings currently include angry and abusive parents. I'm unaware of any statistical sampling data that focused on Bible believing kids or etc.

I must say, though, we have observed that spanked children are more aggressive but in positive modes--competitive, articulate. I watched a soccer game this weekend and it happened that the roster was mostly home schooled spanked kids I know. They played very hard, they communicated "I'm open" or "Go for the goal" kinds of things a lot--but they played very fair.





Just give up.
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26-11-2013, 08:24 AM
RE: To train up a child
(25-11-2013 06:38 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(25-11-2013 06:24 PM)sporehux Wrote:  (Assuming your argument is valid)

PJ , please explain why you are ignoring all the evidence
That smacking is unnessicary , almost all first world countries have made it illegal Because of the high probability of mental health damage.
And based on many countries having it outlawed for so long, that don't have evil child epidemics, what evidence do you have that all these countries are wrong ?



Study shows even loving parenting that had spanking is harmful.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/201...103621.htm


Http://m.psychologytoday.com/blog/moral-...d-all-kids

Because he's not interested in good parenting - only control and domination; training, not teaching.

If we were uninterested in teaching, why did we home school each child until high school? We paid our taxes to support the local schools--and volunteered in them and did fundraising for them, too--AND paid our money to buy countless textbooks and school supplies, etc.

My father-in-law was a teacher, and my father was a teacher--both in secular schools. I grew up reading textbooks as well as lighter fare--you make sweeping statements but seem not to read anything I post to you, Chas.

Good parenting as you put it involves not only education but control. "Domination" is a strong word you've chosen, but since parents hold all the cards, only sickos need to dominate their children.
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26-11-2013, 08:26 AM
RE: To train up a child
(26-11-2013 08:24 AM)PleaseJesus Wrote:  
(25-11-2013 06:38 PM)Chas Wrote:  Because he's not interested in good parenting - only control and domination; training, not teaching.

If we were uninterested in teaching, why did we home school each child until high school? We paid our taxes to support the local schools--and volunteered in them and did fundraising for them, too--AND paid our money to buy countless textbooks and school supplies, etc.

My father-in-law was a teacher, and my father was a teacher--both in secular schools. I grew up reading textbooks as well as lighter fare--you make sweeping statements but seem not to read anything I post to you, Chas.

Good parenting as you put it involves not only education but control. "Domination" is a strong word you've chosen, but since parents hold all the cards, only sickos need to dominate their children.



There was a time when spanking your kid was considered normal pretty much. That time.............. has passed.

Raising a strong-willed child (aka the ones who'd even come Close to needing a spanking)
http://www.amazon.com/The-NEW-Strong-Wil...1414313632


In this day & age with the internet at our fingertips and all manner of free counseling available there's NO reason for a parent or guardian, babysitter, etc to raise a hand to a child. If you're around children or anticipate that you might be - you OR the child lack patience or listening skills --- educate yourself on What to Do!!

Seriously - there's NO excuse for not educating yourself to avoid any sort of smacking[1] where a child is concerned.





[1] call it whatever you like........whitewash it as much as you'd like...... a hand raised in anger or frustration OR as response to bad behavior is a hand raised. Period.

When I want your opinion I'll read your entrails.
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